Which car to choose? :)

[chris71]

Hi Guys,

My 924S proved a little too much trouble (mechanically) for use as an everyday in the end, but I will be back! I'm looking to get hold of a new 'fun car' early next year and the idea of something with the 924s balance, but with slightly more taught handling and more power kind of appeals.

So, what do people suggest?

[For anyone in the UK, my maximum budget is going to be about £6000]

I think this leaves a 944 S2 as the obvious candidate. I reckon the 928 would be too complex and probably too expensive to buy in the first place. A decent 968 would be out of my price range. Presumably that leaves the 944 turbo as the only competition.

It strikes (never having driven either) that the 944 S2, 944 turbo (and 968) are all fairly closely matched on paper. The turbo might be somewhat quicker, but it strikes me you'd have an increased chance of things going wrong with a turbo'd engine, increased service costs and problems with turbo lag which might spoil the car's 'steer on the throttle' handling.

[Other cars I'm looking at are a TVR 350i, TVR S, Ginetta G32, Lotus Excel, supercharged MX5 or some sort of lotus seven clone]

[Lawrence Coppari]

As they came from the factory, the three you mention are relatively close. For not a whole lot of money, the turbo can be made to be quite fast, much faster than the other two. In my opinion, they are also reliable. Mine has over 80 DE's on it in the 10 years of ownership.

If you can fix these things yourself, the cost of ownership is not bad at all. If you want to autocross, I would not get the turbo. If you want to run it on road courses, by all means, get the turbo.

If you want to kick butt on the highway, get the turbo and put a little extra money into the engine and have fun. I, however, am not advocating racing on public roads.

[CJFusco]

951 is a LOT of fun.

[fastfredracing]

My 951 was a blast, super fast, and every bit as reliable as every other 944 I have owned. Probably a better bet than an s2 which has the potential to break the bank if you break a cam chain. 951's dont bend valves either. I flogged mine regularly, and It was not that well maintained before I got it, and it treated me real good. They are a little harder to work on than a n/a though. Good luck

[Eldorado]

if you're getting a new car because your 924S is causing you mechanical trouble... why would you get a car of a similar make/year?

[callmethewander]

I've driven several 951's and they are indeed fun. i currently own an '87 944 n/a which i drive daily to commute into nyc and it has never let me down with normal, regular maintanence, and i love the drive. i also own an '89 944 S2 which i originally bought with the intention of using as my daily driver, however it proved to be too much of a high performance car to drive in traffic every day. The S2 is an awesome car with a very taut suspension and what i consider plenty of power through a long rpm range. You definitely do not want to break a timing belt on it (or the 968, which has the same engine, save variocam), but with prudent maintenance that is highly unlikely. The S2 is a car that is a blast to take out for a fun ride or an autocross or just to satisfy an occasional need for speed, i love mine and am very happy with both my 944's. I believe that when evaluating thier worth realistically they are very reasonable cars to own and drive if you calculate the real cost of any other car. They will not rust through, they've already suffered all their depreciation, unless you have a major prob, they cost no more in maintanence that any other 20 yr old car i know, and, they're a porsche, their is no substitute! good luck and happy motoring.

[onZedge]

Too much trouble mechanically?? My 924S has been an excellent and reliable daily driver for over six years!! (OK, except for the bad FPR incident) I can't really understand why you would even consider a 944S2, 951 or a 968. They are even more mechanically complex than a simple 924S and because of that, more expensive to maintain!!

[callmethewander]

Zedge, you have a 240Z? cool! is it running? what condition is it in?

[fastfredracing]

I can definately understand why one would want an s2, turbo or 968. I have loved all my 944's but a with a turbo you can get sick power, and the s2's and 968's with their smooth power delivery are the natural evolution of the 924/944. The 968 is just a fantastic car to drive, I think my grandma could turn fast lap times in one., and I am with calmthewander, that with regular maintanence, would not really cost much more to drive than an older car. Dont sell your 924 though, one can never have too many porsches.

[chris71]

The empahsis was that *my* 924S had a few problems mechanically, but I think that was a bad example. Perhaps more importantly I've now got the funds for a second car, so if it had to spend a few days in the garage every once in a while it wouldn't be such a bad thing. But, based on other peoples experience I don't suppose it would (like I said, I think mine was a bad exampole of a good car)

Would like something a bit more focused than the 924 though as that seemed a bit soft. Again, not sure how much is due to the condition of that particular car, Either way a few BHP would be good.

My main reason for going for an S2 is having 50hp more than my old 924S it should be quick enough in standard trim. There's somewhat less to maintain than the turbo(?) and most of all, I've heard they have very noticeable turbo lag and I think I'd prefer to have na throttle response to balance the car in the bends. That said, I've not driven either, so guess I should hold judgement until then.

I've got a long list of other cars I'm interested in and I've managed to go down and write one complaint ('not suitable for everyday use' 'too expensive' or whatever) against every one except the 944's!

Oh - what exactly is autocross? Think it's what us ignorant europeans term an autotest - sprinting one car at a time round a course?

[Schumi]

Originally posted by fastfredracing
951's dont bend valves either.

Wait the 951's aren't interference engines? What? I never knew this. Is it because the compression is lower and therefore the pistons don't come as close to the valves?

I have been wanting to upgrade next summer to either an S or an early 951. I love the idea of the 16V, and I love hte idea of the turbo, but I always thought the turbo would cost an arm and a leg mroe to maintain/fix. But if a timing belt break wouldn't turn into a 1200$ valve job, then I would be much less worrysome with a 951.

[fastfredracing]

Yes, I am next to positive that the 951's with their dished pistons have enough clearance to avoid a piston to valve collision. I have only had one come into the shop with a broken belt, and not a valve was touched, .Wheras, I have never seen a 944 na break a belt without mass destruction.

[chris71]

Originally posted by fastfredracing
Yes, I am next to positive that the 951's with their dished pistons have enough clearance to avoid a piston to valve collision. I have only had one come into the shop with a broken belt, and not a valve was touched, .Wheras, I have never seen a 944 na break a belt without mass destruction.

....Ahhh, thats where those WMD's were

[callmethewander]

chris, yes autocross is your autotest. great fun, and pretty safe stuff.

[J1NX3D]

951's do bend valves a rennlist search of their more active 951 board will give more info.

i'd get the S2 for a good DD and the turbo if i knew i was going to get power hungry.

[chris71]

Thanks - seems to be quite a big thing in the states, only get it done by a few car clubs over here it seems.

Can anyone comment on the 951 power delivery? I like the idea of something a bit different (and a bit quicker) - but want sharp throttle response to get the car nicely balanced round the bends.

[pozican]

Originally posted by chris71
Thanks - seems to be quite a big thing in the states, only get it done by a few car clubs over here it seems.

Can anyone comment on the 951 power delivery? I like the idea of something a bit different (and a bit quicker) - but want sharp throttle response to get the car nicely balanced round the bends.

The lag is a bit too much for autocross, but on the freeway at 3k rpm the turbo spools pretty quickly.

Granted, I have a boost enhancer, but that's a minor modification.

If you are willing to last through the lag, the power is amazing in the turbo. I suppose you might be able to goto a smaller turbo so it can spool quicker. I read somewhere that a newer VW turbo from those 1.8's can spool like no other, but are still small enough to spool quick. I remember someone saying that they would probably be able to withstand the abuse too.

Then again, there's nothing like my 944 NA in first off the line (for the 2 seconds it can take the turbo)


Those turbos can get you in trouble though - Trust me -- Before you know it, you are far above the speed limit, it doesn't take much.

-Alex

[bulachip]

I recently bought a 99M3 and have never been happier. All 944's have problems they are wonderful cars but are getting old and need work. I suggest if you want anything truly reliable you should save your money and the 924s and buy something newer to play with. In the long run it will not be that much more expensive when you consider your time and fustration. For 15-20k a really nice car that you don't have to worry about awaits

[pozican]

Originally posted by bulachip
I recently bought a 99M3 and have never been happier. All 944's have problems they are wonderful cars but old and need work. I suggest if you want anything in the form or reliable you should save your money and the 924s and buy something newer to play with. In the long run it will not be that much more expensive when you consider your time and fustration. For 15-20k a really nice car that you don't have to worry about awaits

I was actually considering getting an M3.

Depending on how troubleshooting goes today, I may just cut my losses, sell both 944's and go get one...

Any key things to look for in one? I know for say a 944, timing belt is key.

Thanks,
-Alex

[chris71]

I'm looking at doing excatly that. Not an M3 though - over here an S2 cost a little less than a mid 90s M3 and has the benefit of classic insurance, whereas the BMW doesn't so I couldn't afford to insure one at 23.

The cars that are tempting me at the moment are TVR S3's and 350i's - 2 seat open sportscars with a nice compact V8 in the front