Shadow Drive? Electric hybrid kit.

[flat6pilot]

Will the forum title need to get updated soon to add ….Electric Hybrid?

Elephant Racing just sent me this in an email.

Shadow Drive:
Add 150HP on top of your current engine power... For modern 911's back to 1965.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgCZxwzA9JU&feature=youtu.be&mc_cid=cece10be6a&mc_eid=8818b35960

[Lyle O]

OK, how much ($) ? According to their website, ...$75,000.

[Ollies930]

And it weighs 170lbs. Pounds per horsepower, not too bad at all. Horsepower per $ on the other hand is terrible. Imagine what $75,000 would buy in engine/chassis/suspension mods. Of course if you were interested in saving the environment, chances are that you would not be driving a 911, air or water cooled. Plus, there are companies that will convert your car to pure electric (heresy, I say) for places like London, which is planning on outlawing gasoline engines in the inner city.
Being extremely opinionated, I do not see much of a market for this in the US, even though it is an interesting bit of kit.

[flat6pilot]

$75k is a bit steep. I could probably build a pretty stout engine/gearbox combo for that much.

[clutch-monkey]

would really help off boost power in turbo cars, could be quite useful. but the price..

[kevinbodman930]

I saw the Vonnen boothe at Rennsport and talked to one of there representatives and I sware he said 40g and I thought that was a little high,butt speed cost money how fast do u want to go?

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[Jeff Alton]

75K on their website. Going to be tough sell at that price for an tested (longevity etc) part.

I think it is an amazing idea, but difficult to market at that price point. Little value when you go to sell car compared to cost of install. But then that is the same for all performance mods.

Cheers

[speednme1]

A cool idea but for $75k you could modify your 911 (or 930) to have an additional 150hp and have the beauty of an engine with all the right goodies(and sound)...i.e. itb, twin plug, Motec, etc..etc..

[RarlyL8]

For $75K you can Buy a 930.
This electric crap is just stupid. These are no longer cars they are completely boring methods to get from point A to point B. Put this crap on public transportation and mini vans and leave the sports cars alone.

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

For $75K you can Buy a 930.
This electric crap is just stupid. These are no longer cars they are completely boring methods to get from point A to point B. Put this crap on public transportation and mini vans and leave the sports cars alone.

Said no one in a P1, 918..
Using torque fill to bump out the power band of a cranky motor is a brilliant idea.

[baloo]

Wait till the Chinese copy it and compete in an unregulated market --- get something similar for under $1000.
Right now, developers are just trying to recoup their development/testing costs.
Anyone remember the $300 four-function clunky calculators from 1969? Now they are watch sized and given away free as promotional items.

[RarlyL8]

Said no one in a P1, 918..
Using torque fill to bump out the power band of a cranky motor is a brilliant idea.

Yes 'cause there are so many of those around. How many threads are there on how to reduce weight in a 911? How much weight does this crap add? Sure if you want an expensive hypercar that goes fast and not much else this is great stuff. If you want a nimble old school sports car that you actually drive without computer assist then not so much. I see where this is going. Sure power options of any sort are great as long as the government leaves are fun old cars alone.

[Bigtoe32067]

I'm so with RarlyL8 on this. I drove Model X p100d and it was sick. The inside was cool and it accelerated like a jet on takeoff but in my mind it's just a really fast golf cart with a lot of amenities.
Leave the sports cars alone. Anyone the buys an electric sports car is not a car nut in my book.
Tony

[Ollies930]

FWIW, as far as I am concerned, if it does not add to the music (engine noise) or reduce weight, it probably has no business on aircooled 911/930s.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Bigtoe32067

I'm so with RarlyL8 on this. I drove Model X p100d and it was sick. The inside was cool and it accelerated like a jet on takeoff but in my mind it's just a really fast golf cart with a lot of amenities.
Leave the sports cars alone. Anyone the buys an electric sports car is not a car nut in my book.
Tony

I respectfully disagree with that. I recently watched a new Tesla accelerate from a dig down a small airport runway - it was a jaw dropping sight and would have left my 930 crying for its mama (aka - major car nut material right there, and its not even a sports car).

[Ollies930]

It really comes down to personal preference, if you are content with a noiseless electric drive, hustling a car around in a very speedy and capable manner, then that is great for you. Personally, I want the full experience, noise, a noticeable powerband, wicked handling that can bite you if you screw up, etc. But that is my thing. It reminds me of a comparison years ago between a Porsche Panamera Turbo and a Ferrari 458 on a track, the had virtually identical lap times, making the Panamera an exceptionally capable 4 seater, if however I were given a choice of the two to play with on track, there is no way I would ever choose the heavy computer controlled, torque vectoring Panamera. Give me little, reasonably light car with all the right noises and turn off the traction control please.

[Kraftday]

Originally Posted by clutch-monkey

Said no one in a P1, 918..
Using torque fill to bump out the power band of a cranky motor is a brilliant idea.

Torque fill retrokit = exactly the modern enhancement the older models should be all about. No constraints! For the 930 perhaps an electric drive motor in place of the starter.

How cool if Porsche would do a "Project Silver E" or something to 964 / 993 C4s. As the front drives wear out they get updated with an electric motor retrokit.

Williams Engineering and the Singer boys could branch together and better utilize the C4 chassis. I think there is a market for all that.

930 era look to the new 935 for example.. E drive it's coming and I'm all for it.

[Kraftday]

Originally Posted by Ollies930

It really comes down to personal preference, if you are content with a noiseless electric drive, hustling a car around in a very speedy and capable manner, then that is great for you. Personally, I want the full experience, noise, a noticeable powerband, wicked handling that can bite you if you screw up, etc. But that is my thing. It reminds me of a comparison years ago between a Porsche Panamera Turbo and a Ferrari 458 on a track, the had virtually identical lap times, making the Panamera an exceptionally capable 4 seater, if however I were given a choice of the two to play with on track, there is no way I would ever choose the heavy computer controlled, torque vectoring Panamera. Give me little, reasonably light car with all the right noises and turn off the traction control please.

Excellent perspective, it really feels stupid to me on an early car. Especially after one removes the emissions and road legal requirements, these 930s really come alive. But they still need help with old school lag.

Protection of the original design intent and experience is such a big part of this form. The kit as it is here and now doesn't feel right for an air cooled 911 / 930. As batteries come down in mass and cost.. Maybe a 996 C4 or Boxster feels like a better match. The way you could buy a disposable version of one of those and then throw the 75K at it. Thinking out loud.

[RarlyL8]

But they still need help with old school lag.

That's part of the charm and experience, along with the noises, smells and banging the gears.
Electric assist is just fine for the new 911's, they are already bloated and laden with computer controls that remove the driver completely from the equation. Something is really wrong when you can go to an auto-x and launch by rev limiter, leave your right foot planted on the throttle never lifting and never shifting, and the car automatically adjusts the speed, brakes and suspension as you drive around the cones. How is that a sports car?

[clutch-monkey]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Yes 'cause there are so many of those around. How many threads are there on how to reduce weight in a 911? How much weight does this crap add? Sure if you want an expensive hypercar that goes fast and not much else this is great stuff. If you want a nimble old school sports car that you actually drive without computer assist then not so much. I see where this is going. Sure power options of any sort are great as long as the government leaves are fun old cars alone.

doesn't need to be tesla levels of power.
some kits being developed add 60kg (or half an american passenger, if you use freedom units) for a roughly 30kw/100nm gain from idle.
not huge power but doesn't need huge power to torque fill low in the range.
the idea is to supplement the old school character not replace it. it's just a power adder like anything else..
these kind of kits will possibly become no different in a sense to using modern turbos for example.. otherwise we'd still all be using dinosaur units because 'lag is part of the character' etc, which is just a way people use to justify **** driving characteristics.
at 75k it makes no sense, but i see EV west does full conversions for 10k, so someone will come up with a more affordable compact kit.

would i do one for my own 911? no not at this point, battery tech will come a bit further and drop the price point/weight.
for something like my daily mx5 etc? yeah for 60kg and that extra shove for a daily, no brainer.

Originally Posted by Kraftday

Torque fill retrokit = exactly the modern enhancement the older models should be all about. No constraints! For the 930 perhaps an electric drive motor in place of the starter.

How cool if Porsche would do a "Project Silver E" or something to 964 / 993 C4s. As the front drives wear out they get updated with an electric motor retrokit.

Williams Engineering and the Singer boys could branch together and better utilize the C4 chassis. I think there is a market for all that.

930 era look to the new 935 for example.. E drive it's coming and I'm all for it.

exactly this.