Question for anyone who's driven a 4 speed 930

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by JMS935

when heavily modified, the 1st gear on the 5 speed becomes an annoyance, the gear is just too short.

Ditto

[lite75]

how about lower 2 and 3 a bit and forget 1st?
a dogleg 4 speed..

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by JMS935

A stock 4 speed is definitely laggy, whereas the stock 5 speed helps keep it on boost better. Even mildly modified however, and some of that lag is gone. And when heavily modified, the 1st gear on the 5 speed becomes an annoyance, the gear is just too short.

If you want a stock 930, the 5 speed is the better tranny for staying on boost. If you want to modify for more hp, however, I prefer mating it to a 4 speed. Less rowing equals more going.

I did say with lots of lag its a dog...

even with a short 1st if you had a closer 2-5 (or even 2-4 for that matter) I think the stock 930 would be more fun. when I had my 930 on the track I could have used 1st for one of the turns but I really did not want to down shift to 1st for it, just did not want to tear it up even though mine does go into 1st nicely.

we don't have the autobahn over here so 100+ for long periods on public roads really isn't an option. yes I have hit 160 but scared to death of going to jail.
my opinion a 4spd geared for maybe 140-150 tops would be more fun especially with the stock turbo.
just my opinion.

I am working on reducing my turbo lag so I have not driven one that the boost does not come in below 3500. (mine had a 7006).

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Less rowing equals more going.

^I love this

My 930 was decently modded and I learned to really appreciate the 4 speed. 2nd gear was perfect for many of the tighter twisty bits of road I like to run. On the track (where I spent most of the time in the car during the latter part of my ownership), mostly was 2nd and 3rd gear. Only real issue was a hairpin turn on my home track that was just a bit too slow to get out of the hole in 2nd...I started downshifting to 1st for this corner, but it wasn't easy to do.

[JMS935]

Only in Rowing, does more rowing equal more going. 😏

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Tippy

IMO, the G50/50 has the perfect 1st gear (3.15:1 IIRC).

I used to think that, and was keeping my eyes open for one.

But reading what Jim says - and seeing max speed in 1st between G50/0x and G50/50 is only a few MPH (depending on shift point, naturally) - starting to think not tall enough to be flexible/useful.

The factory used 3.154 for 1st gear in 2 N/A cars (both the Swiss 964 with the G50/04, and the 964 RS with the G50/10). So not all that tall...

Hence asking how folks got on with the 4-speed 1st - quite a bit taller at 2.6..

[Matt Monson]

I disagree that the 3.154 is too short. Even the modern GT2 RS, which is also a 3.44 final drive uses the same 3.167 as a 997 Cup Car. All the 1000hp 996Tt builds we do retrofit the 3.167 and 1.89 2nd of the RS.

IMO most are focusing on the wrong gear. 1st just gets you going regardless. 2nd gear is the one you use most. Having that ratio provide a usable range of speed top to bottom is key. It’s a tick too tall in a stock 930 4spd and a tick too short in an NA G50. I like 1.938 personally for cars in the 400-600 hp range. More power? Go up to a 1.895 or 1.842.

[Porsche 935]

I don't make a 1,000 hp but I have a 1.25 second gear. So at 60 mph you can pull shift knob back into 2nd and be at 4,000 rpm and pull to redline. Perfect for the street as most speeds are 55mph,

[93097004xx]

I guess its just me but the fact you only have a 4 speed and that’s the way it was intended.. I like that.

You could get a 5 speed in any 911. The 930 is a 4 speed.

As things get older it’s the odd or irrational attributes about them that make them cool and unique.

I really feel the fact that porsche installed a 4 speed vs a 5 speed makes driving a 930 that much more special experience over driving a 911.

[Matt Monson]

Porsche put a 4spd in the 930 because it was what they could fit. They were a small company without deep pockets. They had started racing turbo rsrs with 915s and couldn’t get them to last a 24 hour race. They needed wider gears, and in order to fit the gearbox in the same space within the existing chassis it could only have 4 of them. It was a practical decision, not a performance driven one. The 917, 908, 910, and everything else was 5spd. The 930 was a compromise based on nothing more than the chassis.

[quattrorunner]

Interesting true comment.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Porsche put a 4spd in the 930 because it was what they could fit. They were a small company without deep pockets. They had started racing turbo rsrs with 915s and couldn’t get them to last a 24 hour race. They needed wider gears, and in order to fit the gearbox in the same space within the existing chassis it could only have 4 of them. It was a practical decision, not a performance driven one. The 917, 908, 910, and everything else was 5spd. The 930 was a compromise based on nothing more than the chassis.

All true but doesn't belie the comment about it being the odd, unique, or irrational things that make a car unique or interested.

At the end of the day its all personal preference. Enough personal preference leaning one way or the other makes the market swing one way or another.

Its your car, do what you want with it

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

All true but doesn't belie the comment about it being the odd, unique, or irrational things that make a car unique or interested.

At the end of the day its all personal preference. Enough personal preference leaning one way or the other makes the market swing one way or another.

Its your car, do what you want with it

Your closing comment is more relevant imo. 93079isthebestyearever has made many comments in the past about how the cars are perfect as delivered and nobody could ever improve upon what the factory did with them 40 years ago. It’s your car. Leave it stock or modify it as you wish. The other part is rubbish

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

how the cars are perfect as delivered and nobody could ever improve upon what the factory did with them 40 years ago.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by spuggy

I used to think that, and was keeping my eyes open for one.

But reading what Jim says - and seeing max speed in 1st between G50/0x and G50/50 is only a few MPH (depending on shift point, naturally) - starting to think not tall enough to be flexible/useful.

The factory used 3.154 for 1st gear in 2 N/A cars (both the Swiss 964 with the G50/04, and the 964 RS with the G50/10). So not all that tall...

Hence asking how folks got on with the 4-speed 1st - quite a bit taller at 2.6..

My friend had a 965. The 1st was so much more useful than my NA 87 Carrera 3.2 G50/01. The rollout made 1st so fun. Mine just hits the rev limiter in no time, then off to 2nd. I have too much torque to benefit from the low 1st gear - hence my belief the G50/50 is the PERFECT gearbox for most turbo 911's IMO.

The more torque you make, the less gearing you need. Small displacement 4 cylinder cars use 4:1+ 1st gears with 4:1+ rear diff ratios (at least back in the day).

Top fuel dragsters run direct to 36" tall tires.

All relative I suppose..

[voitureltd]

To add a little fuel to this conversation.. I have a 77 short bellhousing 930 5 spd trans in a 77 930 that does not have a RUF nose cone, and the car has Andial fingerprints on the vintage build.
A 5 speed was built by Ruf early 80s and possibly by Andial even before that . The 4spd was in the 930 chassis for homologation purposes for the 930 project to comply for the production requirements as most reading this know.
I wonder if they got away with a 5spd in any 934 as the Andial partners has long had an affiliation going back then and may predate the RUF 5spd? Just wondering / musing.
First is a dogleg against a spring with reverse in the same place with a gear ratio that gets around 50MPH, the second gear is the old first gear place, with a ratio of around 85MPH, 3rd 120 MPH, 4th around 155 all @ 6800 redline and 5th seems to be close to the stock 4th ratio.

Also a 4spd with a 8:41 R&P is an improvement for our roads with a top speed of around 145 MPH. Sort of like a G50 without the 5th gear. Or just use the stock R&P and regear 3rd and fourth so it gets to around 120 in 3rd and 145 or so in fourth. A g50 is so much work and expense as the alternative and a converted 4spd to a 5spd by RUF is also very costly and rare.

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Your closing comment is more relevant imo. 93079isthebestyearever has made many comments in the past about how the cars are perfect as delivered and nobody could ever improve upon what the factory did with them 40 years ago. It’s your car. Leave it stock or modify it as you wish. The other part is rubbish

Has nothing to do with “improving” although I would like to call into question the quality and soundness of these “mods”...

It has everything to do with maintaining a historically significant porsche that is historically correct as possible.

I have recently spent the past month studying the 4 piston calipers and have learned that the casting changed from early to late model 930s as did the manufacturers..

I’m saying that I am trying to be the best historical steward I can be..

You are trying to be a modifier and that is a slippery slope.. really easy to end up with a project that is all wrong .

[JMS935]

^^^A historical steward? It sounds like you run a museum with rare antiquities, as opposed to owning a Porsche 930, which aren’t rare, nor really old enough to be talking in historical terms. You definitely take this ownership experience way beyond the norm.

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by JMS935

^^^A historical steward? It sounds like you run a museum with rare antiquities, as opposed to owning a Porsche 930, which aren’t rare, nor really old enough to be talking in historical terms. You definitely take this ownership experience way beyond the norm.

Fewer than 500 RoW 79 930 remain worldwide.


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[JMS935]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

Fewer than 500 RoW 79 930 remain worldwide.


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I keep forgetting this is 1979 MY specific with you, even though nobody else cares much about that at all.