Who's a Meth User? Water/Methanol Injection

[Peter M]

Anyone experienced with using water/methanol injection on their 911?

Particularly interested in those using their standalone ECU to control a Aquatec or similar pump.

I did a search and was surprised it didn't pull up anyone using injection with their aircooled cars. Gotta say I was surprised!

[Dr J]

I am playing with the idea. I have a coolingmist system that I am controlling with the AEM infinity. I tried controlling the motor via PWM. It can be done, but I did not have significant control of the flow rate. Only at very low pulse rates it halved the flow rate but increasing the pulse rate just a bit resulted in near full flow. My conclusion is that you would have to pulse a solenoid rather than the pump.

Also, because of my location in Florida I had difficulty getting washer fluid with sufficient methanol content. Using plain water, I found I did not get the dramatic IAT temperature reduction you see people show in youtube, although combustion temps must have been lower just by the physics of it. This was with a supercharger but I had the ECU not allow boost to develop, since I had not done that portion of the VE table. Now in ”winter” I was able to get a -20F washer fluid. No tests done yet.

I actually started a thread asking about high IATs but did not get any concrete data on IATs with boost whether supercharged or turbocharged.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1030723-high-iats-supercharged-efi-no-intercooler.html

[Dr J]

Here is a thread where someone did it before.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/568552-930-water-methanol-injection.html

[Black_Hat]

I did. and I use it as insurance , I did NOT add timing and Boost because of the meth injection.

I buy Meth 5 gallons at a time at the hot rod shop or a gallon at a time on Amazon.

I mix with distilled water.

there "can" be issues with the meth washing down the top cylinder oil/ lube leading to failures. I get around this by adding Koltz refined castor oil it's called Benol and it smells nice. I get thumbs up from all the Ducati guys after a boost run. You need to run a less water and more meth in a mix to keep the benol in suspension.
After 10K+ miles on my rebuild I have perfect compression and perfect leak down.

I have one nozzle injecting on boost controlled by my XDI2. The Nozzle is directly on egress from my intercooler.

Forced to Deal with This

[dap930]

How much Benol are you mixing in the water/meth?

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Dr J

I actually started a thread asking about high IATs but did not get any concrete data on IATs with boost whether supercharged or turbocharged.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/1030723-high-iats-supercharged-efi-no-intercooler.html

Don't think I saw that thread the first time. Your IATs seem insanely high, but no idea why, sorry.

Here's a log, turbo, EFI, air-to-air intercooler (Kokelyn);



Same GM sensor as you and Tippy; I get different readings second-by-second out of mine, eg when the intercooler is hot and cooling down - I've got no reason to disbelieve what it says.

Ambient at start ~23C. Highest IAT peak is 41.1C. Or 106F.

You can see it mostly recovers pretty fast driving along - the one time IAT takes longer to come down is stopped, idling - so very little air being drawn into engine bay/through the (unshrouded) intercooler by the fan.

I saw higher IATs (at less boost) chasing down a boost leak; on that log, starting with ambients of 19C, I saw a transient IAT 48.6C right after 176.8 kPa. Think the turbo was working harder...

But generally, just driving off-boost, IATs are slightly lower than ambient for me.

[dos531]

I did for a while, but it just got annoying always filling it up. When I went to the 3.2 manifold and full bay intercooler I got rid of it.

[JakobM]

50% meth and 50% water is very effective for those that do not have acces to E85. Regarding frequent fill up, well it depends on how much you are on boost, and E85 requires barrels instead of small cans, even pump gas needs refilling at times also :-)

Easy to setup on modern aftermarket ecu's - Simply buy the pump - both AEM and aquamist uses the same pump, then buy the open/close valve by aquamist and nozzle(s) for pre-throttle spraying. If you want to combine it with direct port injection, then buy the nozzle plenum. Aquamist has it.

Then set it up in your aftermarket ECU to control the duty cycle of open/close valve in a diagram and manage the power to a relay to control the pump (even some ecu can handle a pump directly) Most aftermarket ECU should have the function of customized diagrams and you set up the X and Y axes as you please. Example is setup boost vs. valve duty cycle, and have the ecu turn on and of the pump based on the criteria you define.

Several aircooled porsche turbos and turboed beetles are using it. Interesting is that M/W inject. was used during the 2nd world war for aircooled powered airplaines for cooling when experimenting with nitro on take offs...

[tailwind22]

I did a water meth install on a 87 turbo when I converted to efi. A few months later I sent to Chris at Turbo Kraft (I am a big fan) for him to dyno tune. He is not a water meth fan and actually got a better and higher power curve by disconnecting the water meth. Anyway, water meth has it's applicaions, just not sure it is on a boosted P car.
'

[patkeefe]

I use it, actually, I just use water. Works great. Runs off a pressure switch, so when boost gets to like around 3 PSI, it starts injecting water. Water injection is via an oil burner nozzle...I don't recall how many GPH the nozzle delivers. I use the windshield washer bottle as a reservoir. It will last 1/2 hour at the track, and practically forever on the street.

System was developed by a Corvette neighbor in NJ, Blowerworks.

[matthepcat]

Are you just using it for controlling detonation ?

Originally Posted by patkeefe

I use it, actually, I just use water. Works great. Runs off a pressure switch, so when boost gets to like around 3 PSI, it starts injecting water. Water injection is via an oil burner nozzle...I don't recall how many GPH the nozzle delivers. I use the windshield washer bottle as a reservoir. It will last 1/2 hour at the track, and practically forever on the street.

System was developed by a Corvette neighbor in NJ, Blowerworks.

[patkeefe]

Intercooling. Charge cooling, technically. It also controls detonation as a secondary function.

[Peter M]

Thank you gentlemen for your wonderfully informative responses that have led me to favouring Aquamist:
Aquamist direct

I like how the system replicates a EFI system with the supply line running constant pressure to a fast acting solenoid actuated flow valve that is used to control spray volume , the quality of the fittings, the ease of running port injection, how you can buy only the components you need at reasonable cost and that it can be controlled by a PWM output from your aftermarket ECU. Would just mean an ECU upgrade for me $!$

Thanks again!