Fabricating a C2 Turbo to intercooler pipe - Page 2

sand_man · 09-19-2007, 05:10 AM

More C2 Turbo intercooler luv...for motivation (and lust):

kellcats521 · 09-19-2007, 05:29 AM

I am looking at this option as well - I have all/most of the install parts (including the $300 hose) from my B&B longneck fiasco.

Has anyone compared the factory C2 unit to the Blown Six C2 unit?

Also, I may swap my A/C lines/condenser to the C2 stuff in an attempt to keep the A/C in place. Has anyone done this?

Thanks!!

Pat K
87 930 slant

sand_man · 09-19-2007, 05:47 AM

I would venture to say that the B6 might flow a tad better due to it's newer core design, but I wanted a factory Porsche part! By now, I'm only guessing B6 got their bugs worked out, but I just can't justify their high price.

I gotta be honest, I was able to "steal" my 965 intercooler for $605!!!!!! Hell I paid almost $900 for my used B&B shortneck!!! Sure it require a little TLC, but DAYUM that is tuff to beat! I'll have about $75 in the boost pipe (if all goeas according to plan)! So that's a schweet deal!

sand_man · 09-19-2007, 05:52 AM

As for the AC, I probably will make this a project over the next couple of years. I'm planning to run with the large underbelly condensor and all new hoses, evaporator, compressor, etc.

mdurbahn · 09-25-2007, 08:27 PM

man now i want one of these too....

ZLP · ZLP's Garage

I have seen the B6 in person and I can tell you that the fit and finish is nowhere near the factory C2!

sand_man · 10-08-2007, 05:23 AM

Just an update:

I finally got around to installing the 965 intercooler this weekend. Funny thing, making the boost pipe was much easier than I expected. With one silicon coupler attached to the turbo and another on the intercooler, the actual piece of pipe that I needed for the center section, was really quite short!

I didn't want to repaint the intercooler until I had the installation completely figured out - no point in gouging up a fresh paint job while I man-handle the thing. So I'll snap some pictures after I've added a touch of rattle-can beauty to it.

As for performance...I didn't really expect much of a difference - the B&B that I removed was actually quite efficient - so it feels the same to the buttock dyno. I will need to figure out some sort of shrouding for this thing. The factory shroud that was attached to the intercooler got pretty banged up during shipping and I had to remove it...so right now, I've got some serious openings in the tail.

More to follow...

964 T #304 · 10-08-2007, 12:35 PM

Sand Man .Is the intercooler in your pics.of intercoolers below the red one (polished) if so where did that pic come from and are there any others. Thanks Al

sand_man · 10-08-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 964 T #304

Sand Man .Is the intercooler in your pics.of intercoolers below the red one (polished) if so where did that pic come from and are there any others. Thanks Al

I think that one is actually painted. Porschephd (Imagine Auto) could tell you more...they recently did an EFI conversion to it. If you're looking for a "polished" C2 Turbo-like intercooler, I'm pretty sure the B6 (Blown Six) ones are polished. Of course, given enough time, I'm sure a factory 965 intercooler could be polished...

sand_man · 11-06-2007, 06:49 PM

Almost forgot to give this an update:

Then, after I fabricated the boost pipe, a fellow Pelican notified me that a brand new factory 965 pipe was for sale on ebay...I picked it up for $54!!!!! And that's what is installed, now! I'll keep my home brew unit as a spare! Funny how that happens!

And I haven't gotten around to installing the shrouding...ARE THESE F_CKERS EVER DONE!?!?!

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

Here is something you might consider.
The 965 intercooler is shaped that way (I hope) for easy access to the engine. If you make your shroud attach to the grill then it is out of the way when the lid is up.

sand_man · 11-07-2007, 05:06 AM

Thanks for the pictures, Brian. The duct work for this intercooler is in two pieces. One piece connects to the intercooler, the other is a block-off for the tail with an opening made to fit the intercooler shroud sheet metal. In this tail pice, there is also some louvers on the passenger side made to draw air into the factory airbox, which is not currently installed in my car.

I just haven't had a chance to see what will fit and what won't.

I should also add that the intercooler fits better in my car with my home made boost pipe (the one in my pictures) than it does with the factory one!!!! So I might actually go back to the one I made! LOL!

sand_man · 05:14 AM

So an interesting turn: after having spent a week or so with the proper, factory 965 boost pipe, I thought the acceleration felt just a tad off. So early this morning, I removed the Dirk Digler kong of a pipe (it sort of looks like a fleshy off of a blue whale) and I installed my Inbred Jed's Home Brew Bong Pipe! My engine likes this one much better! It must have something to do with the large taper of the 965 pipe? Acceleration seems to be smoother and faster by using a straight pipe. Of course a dyno might tell me something else, but I've decided to keep the 965 pipe as a spare, and rock my stealthy one (pictured above).

EDIT: I know it's a BIG stretch but after spending hours pouring over pictures of 962 and 935 engines, I noticed that most of the turbo plumbing is straight (held togther with those high class Wiggins Clamps)...just food for thought...

sand_man · 11-11-2007, 05:53 AM

After receiving lots of PMs and emails about this, I thought I'd post some additional info:

When the factory BOV housing is removed to make room for a long-neck intercooler, part of the turbo air intake pipe goes with it. I went to a muffler shop and had them fab me a pipe:
CIS boot side is 3"
turbo intake side is 2.75"
and it's 5" in length

In making the actual boost pipe, it was easier to start at both ends and work towards the center. I started with a 2" hump hose on the turbocharger and a 3" to 2" reducer on the intercooler. I used some thick pieces of cardboard on top of the fan shroud to help support the intercooler while I measured how long to make the center pipe that would fit between my silicon couplers.

For reference sake, I snapped a couple pictures of the factory boost pipe:

As you can see there is a slight bend to the factory pipe. Using the 2" hump hose on the turbo gives approximately 20 degrees of bend, so that helps with the fit. The piece of pipe I used was just a piece of exhaust tubing from my old VW GTI VR6.

Here are the brackets that I fabbed up...I'll also be adding one to the fan housing:

F350Lawman · 07:19 AM

I would venture to say that the B6 might flow a tad better due to it's newer core design, but I wanted a factory Porsche part! By now, I'm only guessing B6 got their bugs worked out, but I just can't justify their high price.

The "plug and play" unit may not have compleytely solved his problem.

I just installed the B6 1/2 bay cooler. A nice piece, but I still needed to adjust it some. My mechanic trimmed the stock turbo to cooler pipe but it still was off a little (angle wouldn't quite seat well). We ended up removing the little 1" coupler at the turbo end of the stock pipe an replacing it with a short hump hose like in your picture. The short hump hose came off someone elses older 930. Before we found it , we were thinking of going with an entire new pipe from the turbo to the cooler. This was an easy solution and seems to really eliminate the possibility of a leak..more so than than even the original design IMHO.

Now I just need to block off the tail as there is a huge space where the condenser and AC were.

Falk930 · 12-19-2007, 10:10 AM

Sandmann, do you have a pic from you "home brew"
pipe available?

Just to compare with the C2 one.

Falk

sand_man · 12-19-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falk930

Sandmann, do you have a pic from you "home brew"
pipe available?

Just to compare with the C2 one.

Falk

I'm sorry, I sure don't!!! The next time, I have the intercooler off, I'll remove the pipe and compare with the factory C2 one. Right now though, the car has been running so well (knock wood), I just hate to mess with it.

les_garten · 12-19-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man

I wonder how critcal the taper really is??? Most turbo to intecooler plumbing that I've seen uses straight tubes...of course there's nothing quite like an aircooled Porsche Turbo...

Hi Sand_Man,
I've been contemplating the same question. Resistance increases by the square of the radius or some ***** like that. I didn't look it up, but the moral to the story is do you want flow losses from Restriction or pressure drops from the taper. I'm thinkin' maybe the later. I need to fab up a Boost pipe and am contemplating this. If you run like straight 2" from your Turbo throat to your intercooler, I'll bet lag would go way down, but might see a restriction at higher rpm. Just thinkon' out loud here...

You would still have the initial pressure drop when you hit the IC. Somebody has got to have answered this question.

Les

sand_man · 12-19-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by les_garten

Hi Sand_Man,
I've been contemplating the same question. Resistance increases by the square of the radius or some ***** like that. I didn't look it up, but the moral to the story is do you want flow losses from Restriction or pressure drops from the taper. I'm thinkin' maybe the later. I need to fab up a Boost pipe and am contemplating this. If you run like straight 2" from your Turbo throat to your intercooler, I'll bet lag would go way down, but might see a restriction at higher rpm. Just thinkon' out loud here...

You would still have the initial pressure drop when you hit the IC. Somebody has got to have answered this question.

Les

Some good points. Not being a smart man, I have to leave the equations to the real thinkers of the world. I'm sure it can all be proven on paper. For some reason, my engine seemed to respond better in street circumstances without the taper - keep in mind I did end up purchasing the factory C2 pipe (I still have it as a spare). My home made pipe is also a little shorter than the factory pipe. Alas, I must confess, these butt dynos lack a certain reliability, so even there I'm sure I'd be proven wrong. It just felt like boost fell off ever so slightly with the C2 boost pipe.

les_garten · 12-19-2007, 04:56 PM

Hey Sand_Man,
I've been mulling this over wondering if I should go 2" from Turbo to IC or 3' from Turbo to IC. The Ideas being one end is 2" and one end is 3". Then I looked at the Factory Pipe with the complex taper and thought that those elves in Zuffenhausen had to have thought about this in some detail. However at the shade tree mechanic level that pipe is difficult to fab up.

If you go back and forth between your pipe and the factory Pipe I would be interested in your experiences. I think the straight and narrow pipe has to be more bottom end and midrange responsive. The question would be if you lose some on the top. I would make that trade I think.

Les