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resident samsquamch
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,815
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User slow&rusty would be a good person to consult on this matter. He does these types of calculations and testing for a living...not to mention all his practical experience with import cars. Back when he had his intercooler fabbed up, I remember him maintaning a boost pipe very similar to the stock 930 one with the taper.
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-jeff back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2 *SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction... "Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP  )
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12-20-2007, 04:54 AM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Sand_Man,
I invited him to comment. I'd like to know how he fabb'd the taper. Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-20-2007, 05:11 AM
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resident samsquamch
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,815
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Quote:
I might have a picture, but he actually rolled a piece of sheet metal into a cone and had it welded...I think.
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-jeff back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2 *SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction... "Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP )
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12-20-2007, 05:18 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
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The compromise of intercooling is pressure drop. The design of the up-pipe is conular (is that a word?) in order to retain the high pressure exiting the turbo and then transition to the intercooler with a minimum of turbulence.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds '78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8 |
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12-20-2007, 05:25 AM
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resident samsquamch
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,815
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__________________
-jeff back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2 *SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction... "Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP )
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12-20-2007, 06:04 AM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Quote:
If I see someone walkin' around town with one of these in his back pocket, I'm gonna knock him in the head and take off with it! Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-20-2007, 06:28 AM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Quote:
Could you Fab up one of these Pipes in the Pictures here. Beats the hell out of the AL adapter POS for the K27. I've got one and want rid of it. I'm willing to bet there's a market for these in SS on this forum. Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-20-2007, 06:31 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 381
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Burns Stainless has transitions that may work for you...
http://www.burnsstainless.com/Transitions/transitions.html |
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12-20-2007, 01:10 PM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Quote:
Thanx, I had bought some pipe from them a number of years ago. I didn't know they did these taper pipes. I'll look into this. Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-20-2007, 01:59 PM
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Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
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After dinkin' with the $300 factory - it is an impressive and robust setup.
Personally I would think of using this and be done with it.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
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12-20-2007, 02:20 PM
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Registered
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 5,472
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SandMan - Would do you think you are doing posting pics of my crap parts! I'm still trying to figure if a 930Cab is a better investment than a 993 C2!
Ummmm.....welllll seeing that I had an invite to post on this tread by Mr.Garten, I did actually make that pipe from rolling a piece of flat stock aluminum, cutting it and then tack welding it and then taking it to my good friend's MachineShop to be Tig Welded. I took me actually one try and about an hour or so to make I am going to make a new piece this spring that is longer by about 1.5" on each end and out of slightly thicker wall aluminum. I did not do any flow calcs on this pipe as obviously there are are now real elbows or flow restrictions in it length. I guess I could have calculated the losses in flow from friction for fun, but it would be minimal (i.e = none)...15psi into it = 15psi out of it. My home designed intercooler was where I did ALL my homework \ and testing and my aim was to beat the mighty Kokeln, which I did on every aspect (price, flow, losses, power support, retain factory AC) etc etc. Regards - Yasin P.S: Nice work on fitment of that C2 IC Sandy! VERY nice!
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Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way |
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12-21-2007, 07:46 PM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Quote:
The taper is necessary as compared to a straight pipe with silicone transition? I'm thinkin' straight pipe has resistance losses. Les
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-21-2007, 08:05 PM
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Registered
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 5,472
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All pipes have resistance losses regardless straight or tapered.
In our application...we are splitting hairs here, if you use a staight pipe and a silicone transition is will be as effective as the my pipe or the factory piece. You will NOT see any difference. The pressure we run say between 10-20psi is really small. When you get into higher pressures and long runs of pipe (think in the hundreds of feet) that when you need to think about measuring resistance losses etc. Focus on the intercooler (espeically if you have a stock one)...then I will talk "losses" with you all day... Regards - Yasin
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Ole Skool - wouldn't have it any other way |
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12-22-2007, 04:31 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 404
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From first view, a tapered ( if I understand correct that this means slightly getting bigger) seems to be a good solution.
More I guess the connections influence flow there. I would try to meet turbo and IC holes as perfect as possible. A bad example of connection tube I found on my car. It was upgraded to K27 11/11 turbo. They used a silicone hose for the IC connection. For any reason the hose was bended a little and made a big bubble to the inside. For sure this funny thing reduced flow a lot. Falk
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87 930 bblk/blk 88 3.6 white/blk |
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12-22-2007, 05:15 AM
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Macht Schnell
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: PSL, FL
Posts: 861
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Quote:
So my next question is 2" straight pipe Turbo to IC, or 3" Straight pipe Turbo to IC? I'm thinking pressure drop and flow dynamics here. Les
__________________
---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT |
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12-22-2007, 06:43 AM
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Me like track days
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 10,209
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A taper from the turbo to the intercooler will reduce the velocity a bit and will provide a nice transition from the relatively narrow turbo outlet to the realatively large intercooler opening(s) on the entrance tank.
But in reality, I suspect it won't functionally make a hell of a lot of difference as we aren't dealing with refined flow characteristics inside a jet engine --
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ - "930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe Movie: 930 on the dyno |
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12-22-2007, 06:52 AM
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A fellow Pelacanite
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Just incase you guys didn't get the joke
 http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=397669
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG. Fitting - New service kit. Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head. 1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods. Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit. http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg |
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12-23-2007, 10:10 AM
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resident samsquamch
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cooterville, Cackalacky
Posts: 6,815
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Quote:
__________________
-jeff back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2 *SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction... "Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP )
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12-23-2007, 02:36 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Glorious Pac NW
Posts: 4,184
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Quote:
Now I remember why I never paid Rennlist any money, and in fact rarely bother to read it anymore. Most of the more knowledgable RL members are on PP anyway, it doesn't seem to be anywhere as good as PP as either a community or a technical resource, and there's no "ignore" button for trolls or other undesirables.
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'77 S with '78 930 power and a few other things. |
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12-23-2007, 03:32 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
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Have you noticed the number of Rennlisters now on this forum?
Rennlist absolutely sux. Too many egos for my blood. Les, I probably could fab one up but I'm way too busy to take on anything else. I do have a stock up-pipe that has had the bottom cut off and a silicone hose added (for use with a K27) if anybody needs/wants something like that.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds '78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8 |
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12-23-2007, 06:10 PM
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78 Porsche 911SC 3.0L, 3.3Turbo soon. 
