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Macht Schnell
 
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Mod'd 930's, What size Header primaries?

Hello,
For you folks that have mod'd your 930's. What diameter of Primaries are you using on your headers?
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-14-2008, 10:48 AM
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E-85 sippin drunk
 
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i am in the process of making my own headers utilizing Burns collectors. I will be going with 1 5/8" primaries. i want to keep the velocity up. I have read that 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" is too big for a 3.3 to 3.6L motors... if anyone else has an opinion.... let it out. I am at the stage of ordering material.... So, still open for changes....
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:59 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Design to application is crucial. Too big and lose velocity as stated.
Another design issue is primary length and symmetry. This is also critical to efficiency. Very few headers have equal length primaries.

What are your goals, specifically?

I had a well-know "tuner" tell one of my customers that 1.5" primaries were too small for his 400HP application. I sent him a picture of a 600HP engine using the same exchangers.
LOTS of BS out there. Find an unbiased expert who builds successful systems without being tied to the manufacturer giving the best discount. Goran (beepbeep) comes to mind.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:50 PM
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Macht Schnell
 
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Hi,
I have some cracks in mine, I believe they are 1 5/8". Since some new ones may be in my future, I was just wondering what diameters most are using.
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---Les Garten---85 930, Andial IC, GHL Headers, Fabspeed Dual, K-27 HF2, 3.4 JE Full Finned 7.5:1 CR, 964 CAM'd, Carerra 3.2 Manifold Cut/Flipped, Tec3r, Siemans 55#, GSF Fuel Rails, Clewett Crank Trigger, Clewett Cam Trigger,Dual Plugged, ARP Head Studs/Rod Bolts, Clewett Wires.Tial 46mm WG, Tial 50mm BOV, WEVO Shifter,934 Boost Gauge, Wideband EGO Sensor/Gauge, C2T Head Gaskets, '88 MB 300TE,BMW R100RT
Old 10-14-2008, 01:49 PM
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My car made 5 to the tire on a 12 year-old set of bolt-on B&B's that were modified for a T-4 flange. I dont know, mabye I should go bigger...
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:29 PM
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I use 1 5/8 headers on an EFI car. If it were CIS, I would stick with stock. I also have equal length headers, but would recommend short pipes for mostly street driving. The most important part of my pipes is the waste gate circuit and how efficient it is.
Old 10-17-2008, 04:21 PM
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Mine are 1 3/4 equal length headers with twin tial 44mm wastegates. This is the most responsive, and best flowing setup for a single turbo car. With a large single turbo the single pipe is not the best design. Granted this setup is overkill for most, but looks killer anyway
Old 10-19-2008, 04:49 PM
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:20 PM
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Doug Siegel
 
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1 3/4
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:07 PM
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Expected peak power/torque range of the motor, and overall power output(expectations/goal) really are needed to determine what primary size to use.

In lamens terms......how much power you want to make and where in the rpm band you want to make it most. There are so many variables in the final decision it cannot really be laid out here easily.

Example: Eg33 motor going in my 962 kit car-------> 3.3L(96.9mm B/75mm S), GT3582R .78AR twin scroll, sequential meth injection ~500whp 1-3/4 primaries into 3-1 merge collectors into 2" parallel up pipes to turbo volutes(TS flange). Making peak power on this setup around 4600rpm(redline 7200)

Realistically on a street car response and torque is what you'd want and a smaller primary(all else equal) is better for that.
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Adam Hennessy
Old 10-23-2008, 07:28 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Quote:
Realistically on a street car response and torque is what you'd want and a smaller primary(all else equal) is better for that.
This is why the application must be well considered before jumping in. The aftermarket does not offer too many variations on header design. All work but none are optimal for every street application. The compromise, as always, is weather an expensive custom system will return the investment when a mass produced product will suffice.
Bigger is definitely not better. 1 3/4" primaries reduce velocity, the function of which is a square of tubing diameter.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 10-24-2008, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
This is why the application must be well considered before jumping in. The aftermarket does not offer too many variations on header design. All work but none are optimal for every street application. The compromise, as always, is weather an expensive custom system will return the investment when a mass produced product will suffice.
Bigger is definitely not better. 1 3/4" primaries reduce velocity, the function of which is a square of tubing diameter.


Exactly, 100%.

This is why 90% of my business in designing and fabricating headers and intake manifolds revolves around very specific setups. IE, I'd build an intake manifold based on a particular engines' comp ratio, rpm range used(or expected gain area), specific camshaft lift and duration, port sizing, etc, etc. Flow vs velocity and reversion characteristics make the job tedious.

Same theory applies to header design. In any effect, even a smaller runner header, if designed right, can and will flow very very well up top and not sacrifice low end torque or response.
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Adam Hennessy
Old 10-24-2008, 01:15 PM
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