I Need Some Virtual Troubleshooting

[lucittm]

I could use some help from those of you with 930/965 experience in your virtual garages out there.

I was drive my 1991 965 and it was running flawlessly. When I stopped at the red light it stalled. I was able to get it re-started and I continued on my journey. At the next red light it stalled again.

I though the first time it stalled that I had left the clutch out too long, etc... Now I know something is wrong. I tried to start it and it turns over but won't fire. I tried a few more times and after a few minutes it reluctantly started but the engine will not idle.

I had to nurse the car to my destination by keeping the revs up. It ran fine otherwise. Tach is smooth, no backfires.

Now, what would cause the engine to suddenly lose an idle setting and stall when you let up on the throttle? It is close to idling but can't keep running.

Just now I started it and it idled for about 5 minutes, then the idle slowly dropped off and I had to keep my foot on the throttle or it would stall. It does not suddenly die.

It cranks fine, so I'm thinking the battery is OK. When I measure the battery voltage it is 12.00 Volts with the engine off (trunk and engine lids open). With the engine at 2000-3000 RPM the battery voltage is 13.52 Volts.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark

[e170drvr]

Two things come to mind first make sure that both fuel pumps are operating. pull the eletrical plug at the cis metering flap behind the air filter turn on the ignition but do not start the car. make sure that both the front pump and the rear pump are audible. second make sure that you havent blown a seal somewhere from the turbo up to the tb including intercooler o-rings. These two things have happened to me and the car behaves similar to what you describe. The experts will soon chime in. Either of the problems are easy to fix. Good luck keep us posted.

Eric

[fredmeister]

Check fuel pump relays and replace them if questionable.
It could be the CDI box ignition also as it will act sporadic sometimes but usually accompanied by missing and stumbling.
More than likely you have a fueling issue.....could be one of the pumps failing too. Check the easy stuff first (relays) and then start checking fuel system pressures if no joy.
Pull the plugs and see if they smell like fuel then it is ignition related.

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by e170drvr

Two things come to mind first make sure that both fuel pumps are operating. pull the eletrical plug at the cis metering flap behind the air filter turn on the ignition but do not start the car. make sure that both the front pump and the rear pump are audible. second make sure that you havent blown a seal somewhere from the turbo up to the tb including intercooler o-rings. These two things have happened to me and the car behaves similar to what you describe. The experts will soon chime in. Either of the problems are easy to fix. Good luck keep us posted.

Eric

+1. I once blew an O-ring and she wouldn't idle without my foot on the gas, and of course wouldn't build maybe half of available boost.
Had you been running hard on boost just prior to this happening, to maybe result in dislodging an O-ring? Look for the simple obvious things as already mentioned. Air leak, fuel pump(s) and/or relays are all good starting points.

[A930Rocket]

Good info above. I think you should be getting a little more than 13.52 volts. Correct me if I'm wrong someone.

Check the red wire connections on the starter as well. Power from the alternator runs through it.

I replaced an alternator before I found this to be the problem.

[lucittm]

Thanks for the suggestions. Here is some feeble feedback:

The 930 motor in the 965 does not have an electrical connection on the CIS metering flap. The fuel pumps are controlled by the Jetronic controller, but I get what you are saying. I can turn the key to the "on" position and hear both pumps running.

Fuel pump relay (one) tests fine. I don't have the CDI box, the 965 uses the EZ69 digital spark controller. There is no missing, stumbling, or hesitation, it just won't idle.

I was not on boost when this occurred but it is a good suggestion. I only have one o-ring at the throttle body, I'll check it. The other connections are all hose-clamped (stock).

Since I had the engine out recently, I know the battery connections at the starter are good. I even used graphite grease on the terminal so that is not an issue.

UPDATE - I got the engine to idle by backing out on the idle screw all the way. I mean it is about to fall out. I know this is really an air bleed screw. With the screw turned out, I am adding more air, right? That means I may have an overly rich situation like a stuck injector. Or I am in O2 sensor open-loop all the time. Hmmmmm.

Other possibilities - O2 sensor? 59 deg temp switch to O2 sensor control unit? 95 deg temp switch stuck closed and providing acceleration enrichment all the time? Idle switch out of position signalling open loop condition?

I will check all of this this weekend.

Mark

[WERK I]

I have seen the O2 sensors fail and cause a pig-rich idle situation.....I mean, the engine barely idles. The exhaust smelled very raw. The fact that moving the idle mixture screw (on the throttle body?) almost all the way out indicates there's a rich condition. Check the O2 sensor first, then have your control and system fuel pressures checked if the O2 checks out.

[A930Rocket]

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[lucittm]

Where is our moderator? How do these posts make it in past the logon and password. Can someone please delete this post and ban this user above!!!

[e170drvr]

For all your footwear needs while in Paris. Soooo, did you get that idle thing worked out?

[NathanUK]

Originally Posted by lucittm

Where is our moderator? How do these posts make it in past the logon and password. Can someone please delete this post and ban this user above!!!

If you report the post I will gladly ban any spammer!

Anyone can join this forum and make a post.

[lucittm]

What does it mean technically to ban someone. Does that mean they receive a message telling them they are banned? Is their account closed?

Can you delete the obvious off-topic post?

I have no problem with someone joining and making a post but a french language shoe advertisement? Come on...

Mark

[NathanUK]

A moderator can ban anyone that posts in a section of the forum they are a moderator of.

All their posts can be deleted and they would need to register again to be able to post.

I'm not aware that they get any info that their account is closed.

A moderator can delete or edit anyones post.

All you can do is push the small red outlined triangle and report the post. The moderators of that section of forum will get an email and I try to deal with them ASAP.

I offered to do this because I was rather annoyed at all the spam forums get. I'm also very grateful for all the info I've gathered here and on other forums. It's my way of giving something back in return.

[lucittm]

Thanks. It's people like that that ruin the Internet for the rest of us. Someday there will be a way to trace the post back to a specific computer. Then WHAM, it will stop when those computers become a smoldering pile of burnt plastic, fiberglas, and ribbon cables.

I will invest in the company that comes up with that technology and makes it available to people other than the those in the NSA.

Mark

[Jim2]

Sorry I can't contribute to the OP's idle issue, but I just wanted to say thanks to Nathan for keeping on top of these spam posts!

[NathanUK]

Thanks guys.

I can get their IP address & their service provider. With this info I can complain to their ISP company and get them cut off.