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Turbo Hooligan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Greensboro NC
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You have it out, change the r&p!!! you'll still have a 175-180ish top speed, but it gets there sooo much quicker! or go for the track setup and you'll top out around 160, and it rips all the way there!
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
"when i went from second gear to third, i did not get the shifter fully into third and there was a small grind and the gear shifter was then kicked back into nuetral."

This action wouldn't move the shift fork because he never pushed it all the way into 3rd, instead he let the clutch out while the slider was pushed over the Porsche steel split synchro ring and compressing it so it was trying to match the rpms of the 3rd gear set to the shaft they are located on when he let out the clutch.
He never got it into third but the sliders selector teeth were touching and bouncing over the selector teeth on the gear set. This could destroy or round off the fine teeth on the slider and the gearset and also cause alot of wear to the synchro ring possibly burning it and the brake band up and other associated synchro parts.
Not being able get it into 3rd gear at all now sounds a little like an anchor block or stop block or brake band in the synhcro assembly is knocked out of place and blocking the slider from sliding over the synchro ring. something is keeping the synchro ring from compressing so the slider can slide over it and engage the selector teeth.
Ususally when the selector teeth are used up or rounded off they will still engage the gearset but then pop out when you let out the clutch.
Also as the slider goes all the way over the synchro ring and engages the selector teeth on the gearset locking it to the shaft, the part of the slider now over the synchro ring has a larger inside diameter and the porsche steel synchro ring which is split then expands into that area which then helps hold the slider in place keeping the selector teeth engaged and the gearset locked to the shaft.

If the shift fork had slipped on the shift fork rod than when the gear shift lever is in the nuetral position than the 4th gear synchro would be partially engaged or fully engaged depending on how far the brass fork slipped because the same shift fork and slider that selects 3rd gear selects 4th gear on the opposite side when moved in the opposite direction.
The shift lever would feel quite diufferent when going for 4th gear and he said the rest of the gears feel the same and if thats so it's unlikely that the shift fork changed position on it's shaft.

Drain the oil and look for fine metal particals on the drain plug magnet and in the oil while in sunlight.
You can also take the inspection cover off the bottom of the transmission after draining the oil and look up in there. 4 - 13mm nuts hold it on.
If it's not the external shift coupler you'll be doing this anyway.

The bottom shaft thats right above the inspection/guide fork plate plate has the first and second gearset synchros, and the top shaft has the third and fourth gearset synchros but if you look up there with a flashlight real carefully and know what to look for you may be able to see if the third and fourth gear slider with it's shift fork are exactly halfway between third and fourth gears and their synchros while the shifter is in nuetral.

good luck with it... The slider and synchros for one gearset will be around 500 in parts but the labor is what adds up, and thats not including the replaceable selector teeth on 3rd gear if they are no good.
Of course while it's apart you may as well replace the first and second synchros while in there if they are getting tired and any worn bearings.
You never downshift into 4th so that synchro usually has an easy time of it and probably doesn't need replacing unless it's been abused.
we went through the inspection process you discussed and there were fine metal filings as you suggested there would be. the shops assessment (black forest racing) was exactly what you describe.

your parts pricong seems in line. what would you estimate the labor to be?

thank you for the thoughtful response!!!

pcb
Old 02-16-2010, 04:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkracer21j View Post
You have it out, change the r&p!!! you'll still have a 175-180ish top speed, but it gets there sooo much quicker! or go for the track setup and you'll top out around 160, and it rips all the way there!
lol pete...it may have to wait a while. work has not been what i would hope thus cash is tighter than i like to admit. i must say that your suggestion sounds very tempting!!!
Old 02-16-2010, 04:27 PM
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Ive seen metel filings even in healthy transes before. My money is still on the slipped fork- the forks can be out of alignment if off just a few mm's and cause giant shifting issues. It could be a broken expander or expander lock- but I still think its the fork.
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Old 02-16-2010, 04:33 PM
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Howdy sir,


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Old 02-18-2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Guldan View Post
Howdy sir,


yes...you are correct. parts 3,4 and 7 were all broken badly. the transmission was split yesterday and i had the pleasure to see the damage as it unfolded.

parts were ordered and box is being put back together and will be ready tomorrow. thank you for the diagram.

pcb
Old 02-18-2010, 12:57 PM
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The parts add up fast...

Here's a little $650 pile I've accumulated for mine.
Some parts were special order from Germany through pelican.
Old 02-18-2010, 01:27 PM
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dido on the addition.. I got a little box of parts last month and it was $1900....some of which was also special order.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:31 PM
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JFairman, please dont show how expensive that pile is- just reminds me of how bad I will have to grab my ankles when I have a simaler issue- Good catch on the diagnostic by the way- it really did sound like a simple slipped fork to me.
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Turbo Hooligan
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferraripete View Post
lol pete...it may have to wait a while. work has not been what i would hope thus cash is tighter than i like to admit. i must say that your suggestion sounds very tempting!!!
I know the feeling all to well right now. I've contemplated selling my 930 a couple of times as I've had an expensive and frustraiting last few months with her. the cashflow would help out a lot, but in the end I'd rather be poorer with my 930. I couldn't fathom her having another care taker.

Glad to hear its going back together so quickly.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:46 PM
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i'm back on the road and all is well in the world!
Old 02-19-2010, 05:23 PM
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Thats awsome! I always love fixing a problem like that really quick and the feeling of getting back on the road quick.
What was the ending damage if you dont mind sharing?
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Thats awsome! I always love fixing a problem like that really quick and the feeling of getting back on the road quick.
What was the ending damage if you dont mind sharing?
jfairman nailed it w/ his assessment in his post above. the car is great now. while the motor was out they also did the requisite valve adjustment and new cv boots etc.

the car runs great and i will enjoy it but be more careful. blackforest racing did the work and i must say the john forbes seems to know his stuff. i was also very pleased with the service they gave me.

i wish i could find a ferrari mechanic that was near me and was as good as blackforest!

pcb
Old 02-19-2010, 06:04 PM
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It is good your back on the road. Too bad it couldn't have been something a little less expensive to fix.

Good on JFairman for his assessment.
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferraripete View Post
jfairman nailed it w/ his assessment in his post above. the car is great now.
pcb
I've watched JFairman regularly "nail it" on this board. I enjoy reading his knowledgeable posts.
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:31 AM
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