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HELP! 930 Transmission Issues!

i just got my car back from zuffenhaus a few weeks ago. they did some FANTASTIC work on my 930...new wheels, new exhaust (incredible!!) lowered, cornerweighted, other! they are a fantastic outfit and i can only say good things about keith and aaron!

that said, i was driving today and merging on to the highway accelerating hard up from second gear and into third.

when i went from second gear to third, i did not get the shifter fully into third and there was a small grind and the gear shifter was then kicked back into nuetral.

PURE DRIVER ERROR!

i then tried to put it back into third and it would not go into the gear and almost felt locked out. i then put it into fourth where it needed a little extra effort but went in nonetheless.

i stopped at the next exit and turned the car off and tried the gears with the engine off...it went into all gears but third. i drove home w/o drama but w/o third gear. i am concerned!

what do you think is the likely issue and what kind of money am i looking at to fix. i have just spent a ton of money doing some really neat upgrades and i hate the thought of spending more!!

help!!

thank you,

pcb

Last edited by Ferraripete; 02-15-2010 at 03:06 PM..
Old 02-15-2010, 03:04 PM
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First thing to check is the shift rod, see if it had come loose & moved. Accessed from the rear of the front seats under the carpet on the top of the center tunnel.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:51 PM
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would that effect only third gear or would that effect all gears?
Old 02-15-2010, 07:16 PM
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tranny

The 930 tranny is pretty beefy.

Check the shifter alignment, under the little metal cover, just rear of the seats on the tunnel. If it is not right, it can certainly feel like a tranny problem.
Old 02-15-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRD View Post
The 930 tranny is pretty beefy.

Check the shifter alignment, under the little metal cover, just rear of the seats on the tunnel. If it is not right, it can certainly feel like a tranny problem.
i will check and i do hope you all are correct. i must tell you i still remain concerned that it is more however as it happened at wide open throttle @ 6500 rpms shifting up to third.

what do i look for in the alignment and how do i repair it?
Old 02-15-2010, 07:48 PM
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i must note that prior to me blowing the hell out of the shift, the box shifted perfectly and the car is very low miles and never had a problem.

is the alignment subject to problems on only one bad shift?
Old 02-15-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akila View Post
First thing to check is the shift rod, see if it had come loose & moved. Accessed from the rear of the front seats under the carpet on the top of the center tunnel.
+1

Also, those plastic bushing pieces that hold the shift rod in place are ticking time bombs just waiting to explode into a million tiny pieces from wear/tear/tunnel heat at the most inopportune time (just ask me how i know) making certain shifts (reverse, third) diffiuclt

First, check the shift rod alignment in the rear as above, then check out the bushings as well. If they look ok, you will then need to check the shifter lever bushings in front, as they may have exploded.

Does the shifter feel sloppier than ususal?
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:54 PM
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i will look and report back tomorrow. thanks justin.

another note: the shifter seems normal...no additional slop. it is only abnormal as it is locked out pf third gear. i still worry that it is more catistrophic than an alignment issue but hope reigns eternal!

Last edited by Ferraripete; 02-15-2010 at 08:21 PM..
Old 02-15-2010, 08:14 PM
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I think maybe your trans. coupler in the tunnel behind the seats came loose or bushings broke up. This happened to me before also.

How much was it again to ship those 9's? I still need a pair if anyone has some nice ones.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:26 PM
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are you saying the coupler broke causing me to miss the shift as opposed to my missing the shif due to carelessness?

gawd i pray it is only the coupler!!!

the 9's are long gone.
Old 02-15-2010, 08:33 PM
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You can always drain the oil and look for small metal particals from the slider teeth.
They start the compression of the synchro ring before the selector teeth engage the gearset.
Old 02-15-2010, 08:53 PM
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Pete, I am sorry to say....
I am pretty sure you shifted the 3/4 fork on the shaft internally. I say this because I have broken my gearbox a few different ways now. One way is if you bent the fulcrum fork that bolts into the bottom of the trans, but this would make a weird, constant grinding noise while in gear. Then there is shifting the 3/4 fork- it will go into 4th just fine because the fork is now slightly closer to the 4th gear synchro inside the trans but also further away from 3rd.
I hope it is something external for you, but performing many "vin deisel" shifts and breaking things myself, I feel it may be a little more towards internal.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferraripete View Post
are you saying the coupler broke causing me to miss the shift as opposed to my missing the shif due to carelessness?

gawd i pray it is only the coupler!!!

the 9's are long gone.
Mine broke during shifting. If it is original then that may be it. It is real easy to find out.

Let's hope that is what the issue is. That is the least expensive.

I know your 9's are long gone. I emailed you a couple of times to get shipping info and didn't hear back. Thanks anyway.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:27 PM
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It happened to me around 12 years ago. I can't remember for sure but I think after the couple in the tunnel broke I only had 2 gears left. The shifter became too sloppy and I though I killed my transmission.

I was so happy to find out it was $12.00 worth of parts for me to fix myself.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 930gt-40r View Post
Pete, I am sorry to say....
I am pretty sure you shifted the 3/4 fork on the shaft internally. I say this because I have broken my gearbox a few different ways now. One way is if you bent the fulcrum fork that bolts into the bottom of the trans, but this would make a weird, constant grinding noise while in gear. Then there is shifting the 3/4 fork- it will go into 4th just fine because the fork is now slightly closer to the 4th gear synchro inside the trans but also further away from 3rd.
I hope it is something external for you, but performing many "vin deisel" shifts and breaking things myself, I feel it may be a little more towards internal.
this is my suspicion. tell me what type of investment is required to make it right?

what else will i need to do while it is out?

short gears? light weight flywheel??
Old 02-15-2010, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kycarguy 935 View Post
It happened to me around 12 years ago. I can't remember for sure but I think after the couple in the tunnel broke I only had 2 gears left. The shifter became too sloppy and I though I killed my transmission.

I was so happy to find out it was $12.00 worth of parts for me to fix myself.
i wish this were the case but my shifter is not sloppy...it never was. i only have the third gear issue...shift fork was my initial thought but i know little to nothing about 930 boxes. i only know i have never had a problem with any of my 930's until now...i guess i was due.

i am very sorry about the wheels. i got bombarded w/ e-mails and honestly thought i answered all those serious. again i do apologize to you for any lack of response.

very best,

peter
Old 02-15-2010, 09:46 PM
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Pete,
To rectify the problem is cheap as far as parts are concerned- I suspect you did not bend the shift fork because that would be plain odd. All that is needed is to: remove the trans, remove the front cover and middle housing, loosen both 1/2 and 3/4 forks, put ridiculous expensive Porsche jig to hold the rails, adjust the forks, re-tighten the 13mm head locking bolts, and reassemble the trans. While it is out, it couldn't hurt to look at clutch, flywheel, and gear options. Now if you want to do gears, I suggest replacing the individual gear sets (as opposed to ring and pinion) because they do not involve setting the tolerances for the R&P (takes a good chunk of time to perform this). However the gear sets are big money, I think good new sets are about $700+. Definitely look at your synchros and sliders, they are also very expensive, but those are worth replacing "while your in there." Last time I screwed up my tranny, I simply bought a case of oil to refill the motor, trans fluid, and a gasket kit for the trans; took it apart, fixed it, and then just slapped it back together- total parts cost was like $120 total. At that time I promised myself to not perform any "while your in there" stuff as the car was fine other than the slid fork. If you enjoyed your car before the incident, I suggest just fixing her and leave it.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:01 PM
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kris,

your suspicion was correct. the car is at the shop and the tranny will come apart tomorrow. we will do as you suggest and i will also resist the desire to do short gears and lightwieght clutch assembly for now...maybe in the future.

i will report more as we go. thank you for your guidance.

pcb
Old 02-16-2010, 02:32 PM
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Im sorry that it has to come apart....
She will be as good as new very shortly though!
good luck
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:34 PM
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"when i went from second gear to third, i did not get the shifter fully into third and there was a small grind and the gear shifter was then kicked back into nuetral."

This action wouldn't move the shift fork because he never pushed it all the way into 3rd, instead he let the clutch out while the slider was pushed over the Porsche steel split synchro ring and compressing it so it was trying to match the rpms of the 3rd gear set to the shaft they are located on when he let out the clutch.
He never got it into third but the sliders selector teeth were touching and bouncing over the selector teeth on the gear set. This could destroy or round off the fine teeth on the slider and the gearset and also cause alot of wear to the synchro ring possibly burning it and the brake band up and other associated synchro parts.
Not being able get it into 3rd gear at all now sounds a little like an anchor block or stop block or brake band in the synhcro assembly is knocked out of place and blocking the slider from sliding over the synchro ring. something is keeping the synchro ring from compressing so the slider can slide over it and engage the selector teeth.
Ususally when the selector teeth are used up or rounded off they will still engage the gearset but then pop out when you let out the clutch.
Also as the slider goes all the way over the synchro ring and engages the selector teeth on the gearset locking it to the shaft, the part of the slider now over the synchro ring has a larger inside diameter and the porsche steel synchro ring which is split then expands into that area which then helps hold the slider in place keeping the selector teeth engaged and the gearset locked to the shaft.

If the shift fork had slipped on the shift fork rod than when the gear shift lever is in the nuetral position than the 4th gear synchro would be partially engaged or fully engaged depending on how far the brass fork slipped because the same shift fork and slider that selects 3rd gear selects 4th gear on the opposite side when moved in the opposite direction.
The shift lever would feel quite diufferent when going for 4th gear and he said the rest of the gears feel the same and if thats so it's unlikely that the shift fork changed position on it's shaft.

Drain the oil and look for fine metal particals on the drain plug magnet and in the oil while in sunlight.
You can also take the inspection cover off the bottom of the transmission after draining the oil and look up in there. 4 - 13mm nuts hold it on.
If it's not the external shift coupler you'll be doing this anyway.

The bottom shaft thats right above the inspection/guide fork plate plate has the first and second gearset synchros, and the top shaft has the third and fourth gearset synchros but if you look up there with a flashlight real carefully and know what to look for you may be able to see if the third and fourth gear slider with it's shift fork are exactly halfway between third and fourth gears and their synchros while the shifter is in nuetral.

good luck with it... The slider and synchros for one gearset will be around 500 in parts but the labor is what adds up, and thats not including the replaceable selector teeth on 3rd gear if they are no good.
Of course while it's apart you may as well replace the first and second synchros while in there if they are getting tired and any worn bearings.
You never downshift into 4th so that synchro usually has an easy time of it and probably doesn't need replacing unless it's been abused.
Old 02-16-2010, 02:40 PM
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