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HoyaBear
 
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How to install MSD ignition

Hey all,

I think my Permatune kicked the bucket, so its time to upgrade. I have done some searching on the forum and found a lot of information on how to do this. In particular, I found one really good article for putting MSD in a pre-SC non-turbo (Bosch CDI to MSD - Answers here!), but I haven't found anything definitive for a 930. As I'm going to have to figure this out in order to get it installed in my ride, I figured I'd try to make a "how to" for future use similar to what Fest911 did.

First things first, the opening questions to the experts:

1.) What differences, if any, exist in trying to install an MSD into a 930 vs a 911?
2.) What parts do I need (Assume I'm using an MSD 6AL-2)?
- Should I get a new coil (I have a stocker)?
- Electronics?
- Wiring?
- Materials?
3.) Does anyone have any instructions/advice/tips from experience for doing this?

Thanks!
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'86 930: 3.4 Andial build, Web GT2 Evo cams, Carrillo rods, ported/polished heads, MSD 6530, B&B headers/exh + intercooler, K27HF, 1 bar spring, Tial wastegate, Andial FE, Lindsey Fuchs. Back in black!!!
Past:997S cab; '88 930; '86 951; C5 Vette; 4th Gen Z28; 3rd Gen Trans Am GTA; '71 Z28
Old 03-17-2010, 11:11 AM
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I installed one in my car several years ago. Here's what I came up with:

I don't think there is any differnce between a 911 and a 930 install. I've done both and they were the same for me. I would get the compatible MSD blaster coil. The extreme or heavy duty one is encased in epoxy (IIRC) and can be mounted upside down.

I've installed mine in the passenger compartment and the engine bay (on the right rear firewall). Maybe the MSD6AL-2 is small and will fit the original CDI location better.

I've not had a problem with any of the rotors I've used with my MSD, but others have have. Removing the resistor and replacing with a copper wire seems to fix it for them.

MSD Installation Instructions On A Porsche 911

Here's some question and answer info I got from Steve Weiner who owns Rennsport Systems:

1- The large red wire goes to the battery. I used the Positive lug on the starter solenoid as it comes right from the battery
2- The large black wire goes to ground. I used the trans to body ground lug
3- The small orange wire goes to the Positive side of the coil
4- The small black wire goes to the Negative side of the coil
5- The small red wire goes to switched Pos
5- The white wire is used to trigger a MSD shift light
6- The violet wire connects to the violet wire to the shield
7- The green wire connects to the green wire to the center conductor

The violet & green wires conduct the trigger voltage to the MSD. This is phase sensitive and must be connected correctly otherwise the car will not start or run poorly.

I didn't want to cut any of my harness up, so I unplugged the wiring harness off the CD and connected my wires there (the ones from the distributor).

EDIT: Others have said they didn't need the tach adapter.

NOTES: In addition, to make the tach work correctly, the tach adapter is used and:
1- The red wire is to switched Pos.
2- The black wire is to ground.
3- The white wire goes to the tach output on the MSD unit itself.
4- The violet wire is run to the tach input (the purple and black wire by the CD unit).




Last edited by A930Rocket; 03-17-2010 at 01:32 PM..
Old 03-17-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A930Rocket View Post
I installed one in my car several years ago. Here's what I came up with:

I don't think there is any differnce between a 911 and a 930 install. I've done both and they were the same for me. I would get the compatible MSD blaster coil. The extreme or heavy duty one is encased in epoxy (IIRC) and can be mounted upside down.

I've installed mine in the passenger compartment and the engine bay (on the right rear firewall). Maybe the MSD6AL-2 is small and will fit the original CDI location better.

I've not had a problem with any of the rotors I've used with my MSD, but others have have. Removing the resistor and replacing with a copper wire seems to fix it for them.

MSD Installation Instructions On A Porsche 911

Here's some question and answer info I got from Steve Weiner who owns Rennsport Systems:

1- The large red wire goes to the battery. I used the Positive lug on the starter solenoid as it comes right from the battery
2- The large black wire goes to ground. I used the trans to body ground lug
3- The small orange wire goes to the Positive side of the coil
4- The small black wire goes to the Negative side of the coil
5- The small red wire goes to switched Pos
5- The white wire is used to trigger a MSD shift light
6- The violet wire connects to the violet wire to the shield
7- The green wire connects to the green wire to the center conductor

The violet & green wires conduct the trigger voltage to the MSD. This is phase sensitive and must be connected correctly otherwise the car will not start or run poorly.

I didn't want to cut any of my harness up, so I unplugged the wiring harness off the CD and connected my wires there (the ones from the distributor).

EDIT: Others have said they didn't need the tach adapter.

NOTES: In addition, to make the tach work correctly, the tach adapter is used and:
1- The red wire is to switched Pos.
2- The black wire is to ground.
3- The white wire goes to the tach output on the MSD unit itself.
4- The violet wire is run to the tach input (the purple and black wire by the CD unit).
That's one hell of a tutorial Rocket Man!
I wonder why it is that some don't need a tach adapter (I didn't on my '87).
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification.
Old 03-17-2010, 01:33 PM
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Ican't remember if I tried my 930 with or without the adapter, but my 1981 911SC needed one, so maybe I just installed it out of habit? I'd try it without one first to save the money.

Mine's an 87 as well.
Old 03-17-2010, 01:50 PM
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HoyaBear
 
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Wow, that's great. Thanks Rocket! I'll post some pics as I get in there...need to travel up to MA first!
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'86 930: 3.4 Andial build, Web GT2 Evo cams, Carrillo rods, ported/polished heads, MSD 6530, B&B headers/exh + intercooler, K27HF, 1 bar spring, Tial wastegate, Andial FE, Lindsey Fuchs. Back in black!!!
Past:997S cab; '88 930; '86 951; C5 Vette; 4th Gen Z28; 3rd Gen Trans Am GTA; '71 Z28
Old 03-17-2010, 02:19 PM
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Hoya,

I would suggest you take a good look at the MSD 6AL-2 6530, it's the programmable unit. Great for 930's because of th programmable boost retard feature and you can separately program your own timing curve.

Just installed one in the "Old Sled" , now all I need is a motor.

Please excuse the mess in the engine compartment; adding MSD, Tach adapter, 2 map sensors, fuel pressure transducer, O2 wiring, boost solenoid, vacuum manifold, and two new 044 fuel pumps.








If I can be of any help let me know !!!

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 03-18-2010 at 07:23 AM..
Old 03-18-2010, 07:09 AM
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All I remember is it was a pain in the butt on my Euro 930. You had to ignore the MSD manual and reverse the mag pickup wire to get it to work right. I don't remember the details now and would have to look again. The good thing is, I didn't need any tach adapter, it worked fine without it. The unit I got was the 6A (although I wish I'd sprung for the 6AL). You guys were a BIG help and I thank you again!!
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82 Porsche 930 Euro, black, 31K miles.
Factory stock other than k27 turbo, B&B headers, GHL exhaust, Tial F40, 1 bar wastegate, MSD 6A ignition, 8" and 9" Fuch upgrade, H4 Xenon headlamps and a 930S steering wheel.
Old 03-18-2010, 07:16 AM
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At a minimum, I'd get the 6AL, as it has the soft touch rev limiter. The 6AL-2 looks interesting as well.
Old 03-18-2010, 01:12 PM
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Cole:
Good luck with that engine, huh! Also, what parts specifically did you buy for the ignition? One of the techs said I would need a MAP sensor adapter (my car is CIS?!?)...is this true?

Maxx:
The MSD tech actually told me to hook up the mag pickup wire one way and if that didn't work, reverse it...so, I'm not so sure that they even know which way it is supposed to go in.

Picking up a brand spanking new MSD 6AL-2 (6530) tomorrow! Still not sure if I need the tach adapter (mine is an '86) with this unit, I received different answers for this from different techs. I figure I'll hook it up and if the tach doesn't work, the answer is pretty obvious.

Anyone have thoughts about what coil to use with this? I'd prefer to keep things in the stock location, but if it is much better to go with something that I have to make fit somewhere else, I guess that's the best plan.

Thanks
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'86 930: 3.4 Andial build, Web GT2 Evo cams, Carrillo rods, ported/polished heads, MSD 6530, B&B headers/exh + intercooler, K27HF, 1 bar spring, Tial wastegate, Andial FE, Lindsey Fuchs. Back in black!!!
Past:997S cab; '88 930; '86 951; C5 Vette; 4th Gen Z28; 3rd Gen Trans Am GTA; '71 Z28

Last edited by hoyabear; 03-18-2010 at 03:25 PM..
Old 03-18-2010, 03:10 PM
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The epoxy filled MSD high vibration blaster coil is best if mounted upside down on the fan housing.

The car will run with the 2 MSD trigger wires either way but it is triggering from the beginning of the signal one way and at the end of the signal reversed.

The correct way is at the end of the signal, I think it's a square wave and ignition timing will remain the same wired this way.

If you reverse the polarity of the wires the wrong way idle will be alot higher because timing will be advanced around 20 degrees and may be unstable at times.
Old 03-18-2010, 04:02 PM
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Hoya,

The boost retard is programed off the manifold pressure which is why you will need to add a MAP sensor. Since the MAP reads atmospheric pressure and then adds the manifold pressure you will need at least a 2 Bar sensor to read 1Bar of manifold pressure. I use the 3 Bar and that's what I would suggest. The MAP part numbers for the 3 BAR are GM Pn: 12223861 or MSD 23131. You will also need the weather tight connector which you can get from MSD for $8.50. MSD Pn: 8172 that gives you both a male and a female connector. There is an male connector on the MSD for the MAP sensor.



Another tip is add a vacumme manifold. I ended up needing vacuum for 2 MAP sensors, Boost Controler, Boost Gage, Boost solenoid, and BOV so I just added a manifold.




The wiring is pretty simple, I just added a terminal board wired in a male pigtail mating connector that plugs directly into the original engine 6 Pin harness. If you go to the MSD web site on the left side under Tech Support
click on instructions and then enter a search for 6530 . From there you can download and print the manual.

I have an 80 ROW 930 so I needed a Tach adapter, it seems most of the later 930's don't need it. I also used the MSD 8207 coil, bosch 930 non revlimit rotor, and Magnacor 6594 wires.

If you need anything you can always call 260-570-6914.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.

Last edited by cole930; 03-19-2010 at 05:03 AM..
Old 03-18-2010, 05:29 PM
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Thanks Cole,

That is very helpful. I'll probably give you a call when I really get into this on Saturday. When this is all done and over with I am going to get a list of all the part numbers I needed and post some pics for those who are looking to do this. I think that this is going to be the best setup to use going forward and I expect that many will look to do the same as their Permatec and Bosch units crap out.
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'86 930: 3.4 Andial build, Web GT2 Evo cams, Carrillo rods, ported/polished heads, MSD 6530, B&B headers/exh + intercooler, K27HF, 1 bar spring, Tial wastegate, Andial FE, Lindsey Fuchs. Back in black!!!
Past:997S cab; '88 930; '86 951; C5 Vette; 4th Gen Z28; 3rd Gen Trans Am GTA; '71 Z28
Old 03-19-2010, 06:45 AM
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Hoya,

One suggestion, When you get ready to program just set the run retard and boost retard to the default setting. This will allow the 6AL-2 to run just like the old 6AL. This way you can make sure the unit is wired and operating correctly before you start programming. Once you know everything is working properly you can program. Nothing worse than changing multiple components / functions and then when you have an issue on start up you have no idea where to start looking.

I do have an engine, it's just that I had disassembled the car completely for a repaint and will be putting the engine back in last.


Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 03-19-2010, 07:17 AM
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