Another no start problem - Page 2

mark houghton · 10-21-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastm70

So I managed to get the car up to normal operating temp and thought maybe the car wouldn't die as mentioned by spuggy earlier but it still dies if I let go of the plate.

Then while warming up there was lots of smoke(oil) that came out of the exhaust. Thinking it could be the turbo seals or something that re leaking, but don't think that would be my problem.
I accelerated the engine once warm and there was no signs of boost on the gauge.

You will not see any boost build sitting in the driveway and revving the engine.

Something is still amiss here. Could be a huge vacuum leak (intercooler plumbing seals, turbo hoses to and from, AAV/deceleration valve where it connects to the intake manifold, maybe even a plugged fuel filter). Just throwing out some ideas but running out of options.

1fastm70 · 10-21-2010, 08:18 PM

I will check for vaccum leaks right now. I have replaced most of the hoses because I thought it was a vaccum leak at first but with no success. Thanks, I really appreciate the help.

1fastm70 · 10-25-2010, 06:56 AM

So I found the intercooler seal torn as well as the one for the throttle. Ordered them will be here soon. The fuel filter was just replaced but I will check also.

j930 · j930's Garage

I am new to this, but the gauge will not show boost unless its under load, like the wheels are turning. JUst revving it wont produce any movement on the needle.

IMR-Merlin · 10-25-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastm70

So I found the intercooler seal torn as well as the one for the throttle. Ordered them will be here soon. The fuel filter was just replaced but I will check also.

I have been out of the CIS game for the better part of 2 decades, but it's always the easy ones that get us. Especially with CIS. I have chased and over thought problems. Glad to see you figured this out.

Keep us informed.

Brendon

1fastm70 · 10-25-2010, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Quote de 1fastm70

So I found the intercooler seal torn as well as the one for the throttle. Ordered them will be here soon. The fuel filter was just replaced but I will check also.

I have been out of the CIS game for the better part of 2 decades, but it's always the easy ones that get us. Especially with CIS. I have chased and over thought problems. Glad to see you figured this out.

Keep us informed.

Brendon

I haven't figured it out. I found the seals torn hopefully that will keep the car running but I will see once I get the new ones on. I have checked everything that goes in and out of the intake. Tightened every single hose clamp and checked that no hoses were cracked. I tightened the bolts to the intake also just to make sure. I am positive that there are no leaks but haven't turned the car on until I get the seals.

IMR-Merlin · 10-25-2010, 08:40 AM

buy a can of starting fluid too. It's a good way to chase vacuum leaks.

1fastm70 · 10-28-2010, 04:58 PM

Seals came in today. I installed them and the problem still remains. I have no idea what to do now because I have replaced all that I could think would be the problem.

pjv911 · pjv911's Garage

An intake backfire may have bent the metering plate? Have you checked it for smooth travel (with pumps off of course)? Is it in spec? Off hand I don't recall the clearance spec but someone here may have further input on this.
BTW in light of your tooling around with the CIS keep in mind that you can easily hydro lock your engine with fuel if your not careful.
I would have said vacuum leak causing an insufficient flow across the metering plate but it sounds like you already covered that possibility.

Kurt Williams

1fastm70 · 10-28-2010, 08:55 PM

The metering plate has smooth travel all the way through. As for the spec. I believe that the plate has to be in the very center(narrowest point) I believe and it is like that. Not sure if that's what you mean.

mark houghton · 10-28-2010, 09:12 PM

Damn, this is a tough one. Lots of great input, but still....
It sounds like it's boiled down to two things. Apparently the metering plate arm is not being drawn down sufficiently to keep the switch - and thus the pumps - actuated. The engine is sucking in air, and you've proven that it will run - and run well - as long as you manually push the plate down. There must either be (1) too little air (not enough engine vacuum) to pull the plate down and keep the pumps running or (2) something is causing a drag/resistance on the metering plate arm and preventing free movement. But on second thought even those 2 theories don't hold any water because you've stated that your pumps run continuously when you disconnect the switch; thus, you should get fuel to the injectors PROVIDED the metering arm is being pulled down enough to start the flow of fuel to the injectors. God knows it's something simple we've all missed, but at this point I'm thinking fuel distriburtor issues. Unfortunately I don't know enough about the inner workings of the distributor to point you where to start looking.

willtel · 10-28-2010, 09:16 PM

I had a similar issue after removing my upper intake and I didn't get the big boot below the intercooler clamped on properly. IMO you should be looking for a large vacuum leak like a charge pipe that isn't sealing or has torn.

In my case the car would start but wouldn't stay running because air wasn't being drawn past the metering plate and therefore wouldn't add enough fuel to keep it running. Clamping the big boot on correctly fixed it.

1fastm70 · 10-28-2010, 09:21 PM

Thanks for the help. That's what I was thinking but It will be very expensive to replace especially to end up in the same place. Guess I will take it apart and see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestions.

1fastm70 · 10-28-2010, 09:23 PM

Sorry for this but what do you mean by upper intake? Are you talking about the airbox?

RLS262 · 10-28-2010, 10:26 PM

have you tried adjusting air fuel at the fuel distributor.sounds like your to lean and when you touch the flap it comes rich enough to run.this is very sensitive 1/10 turn is way to much at a time.so make sure that you know exactly where you started from.also when you push down on the adjuster it moves the metering plate so a lite touch is a must.

willtel · 10-29-2010, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1fastm70

Sorry for this but what do you mean by upper intake? Are you talking about the airbox?

I was referring to this part as the "upper intake", it holds the diverter valve mechanism and is what the intercooler dumps into.

The large rubber elbow that was loose on my car is the one seen here that attaches to the fuel head and the "upper intake".

mark houghton · 10-29-2010, 05:45 AM

I think he's already checked all rubber connections. That was my first thought as well with giving direction on huge vacuum or air leak, not allowing enough air to be drawn across the metering arm but it seems to have been ruled out.

Curious to know just how much you have to push down on the metering arm to get her to run. Normally it should move just a very small amount to start fuel flowing and if indeed you have to push it down quite a lot, then as mentioned by RLS262 perhaps you are way too lean and an adjustment may help. But as to why it got seriously out of adjustment in the first place is weird. Unfortunately if you start messing with the mixture adjustment on a car that isn't running, you may just compound your issues. Heck, try it if you're feeling brave...turn the thing clockwise 1/10th turn, see what happens, turn a little more and see what happens, then put it back where you started if no affect.

1fastm70 · 10-29-2010, 07:08 AM

Are you talking about the mixture adjustment screw right in between the metering plate And the fuel distributor? I haven't messed with that but will try.

1fastm70 · 10-29-2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Curious to know just how much you have to push down on the metering arm to get her to run. Normally it should move just a very small amount to start fuel flowing and if indeed you have to push it down quite a lot, then as mentioned by RLS262 perhaps you are way too lean and an adjustment may help. But as to why it got seriously out of adjustment in the first place is weird. Unfortunately if you start messing with the mixture adjustment on a car that isn't running, you may just compound your issues. Heck, try it if you're feeling brave...turn the thing clockwise 1/10th turn, see what happens, turn a little more and see what happens, then put it back where you started if no affect.

I have to push down about half an inch for it to stay running. I wouldn't doubt that it has been messed with. You know at first I took the car to a local ac shop(driving)to get it recharged and they said lines and so much other stuff was wrong. I ended up picking the car up(no longer running). I took the car to all local shops and dealers and no one was even able to mantain it on like I did. It was just a waste of time and money. That's when I decided to give it a try and see if I could fix it. It was more than likely the ac shop that messed with it.

RLS262 · 10-31-2010, 01:07 AM

1/2" would indicate to me that someone turned it several times,and it will take sum time playing with the plate and adjusting to get it back to idle settings.I assumed you meant you were only touching the plate slightly,not that someone tried to thighten up that loose bolt on the fuel distributor .

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