930 with number plate issue

[member916]

Posting this in hopes that one of you have experience with this. I looked at a 930 the other day I am considering, checked the VIN inside the trunk and it was good and matched the one on the window pillar, code matched what the car was represented as : an 83 930 Euro spec car. Went to check the door jamb plate and where it should say 3 in the eighth digit it says 9, and where it should say S in the eleventh digit it say 6. When I asked the owner he said he was told it was an 83 built at the end of the year and sold in 84. There is no history of the car until 88 and I do not know when it was federalized. My initial reaction was a red flag because it was not "numbers matching", anyone else have any ideas about this?

[member916]

So no one has seen this before?

[Hirevtuner]

The window piller and door jam vins should match.
Seems like the door jam sticker is showing a different tub vin then what the car is registered as.
What's the whole vin on the door jam?

[member916]

Here is the door jamb plate

The vin in the window and in the boot and on the title is: WP0ZZZ93ZDS000933

[TT Gasman]

Is tbe door jam plate something the importer put on the car?

[member916]

Thats kinda what I was wondering about, if grey markey 930s had odd numbers like the D as a country code rather than S for the plant location etc. Still can't explain the 9 vs. 3 digit though.

[Hirevtuner]

Interesting never seen one like that before.
Someone here must have some info.

[TT Gasman]

The door jam plates must be added by the importer, no two seem to be the same on grey market cars. I don't even think mine has one.

[member916]

Thanks, this is the first grey market I have had the chance to do a walk-around on so I was hoping someone who has seen a few would chime in. I wonder if this is something that Porsche DE can be contacted about for more info since Porsche USA wouldn't be tracking these?

[RarlyL8]

I have purchased two Euro's and dealt with the door jam sticker issue. On both cars the state of import re-assigned the VIN. The paperwork was long gone so a real hassle to sort out. One car sailed right through the DMV in one state while the other got snagged in another state as that state (AL) simply refused to help in any way. A fellow Pelicanite helped me through the process and all turned out well. The VIN in the trunk had no bearing on the registration process as does any accident history.

[JFairman]

This will probably confuse things more but the number in the trunk on my '87 next to the smuggler box is not the VIN number. The number on the driver side A piller and the factory sticker in the driver door jam match on my car but the one in the trunk does not.

When I went to have my title transferred and notorized back in 2006 after buying the car it became an issue and I felt sick. Then they researched it and found out the trunk number is similar but not the actual VIN on a USA '87 911 turbo. Seems that would be the case with all 911's that age but I don't know.

[member916]

Ok, so looking through other non 930 but Porsche threads on this site I read that all pre-1995 ROW Porsches left the factory without door jamb plates, sticking one on was part of the "federalizing" process for Grey market cars in the US as it listed the GVWR and Fed emissions and crash compliance. That might explain why they are stuck on then vs the riveted ones that came from the factory and also why as mentioned above some cars no longer have them. So it seems to me that the window pillar VIN matching to the engine and transmission codes would be all we need to look for in a Euro car. Somebody correct me if my logic is not adding up or if I have missed something.

[voitureltd]

On my 1984 the original stamped number in the smugglers box area is WPOZZZ93ZES000337 which is not the same as on the A pillar and door jamb importers sticker which is 004002593ES000337 and is on the title and the last 8 digits ES000337 is in all locations. The EPA and DOT releases use the WPOZZZ937ES000337 VIN. What a confusing mess however it has a title and I have license plates. Hope this helps realize there must have been more than one procedure back then. I spoke to the head of EPA and DOT for more info. He said if it has a current title and is licensed, that should be good enough as most of the paper records from that time were not "officially" saved at headquarters. I think he also said the state that originally titled it demanded EPA & DOT documents before they approved a title, however some or all also destroy after a certain period of time. Go figure on that one considering the fuss back then.

[bluebox88]

The correct vin for your car is the one stamped by the factory in your trunk (tub). You are fortunate that it is accurately replicated on the window and most importantly is correct on the title. The likely answer to the mis-match is a simple typo error by the US grey market importer when processing the pile of paperwork for this car.

Consider the probable scenario:
Heather, the 20 year-old administrative mgr/ bookkeeper/ receptionist/ sister of owner's girlfriend, already distracted by being late both for lunch and her period, rushes through the last bit of typing necessary to finish the file on Turbo #00933. The car needs to go to the DOT shop up the street and then to the EPA convertor for their work. The only item not checked on the folder is the door jamb sticker for the DOT photos and she jams the metallic label upside down into the company's only working IBM Selectric. Standard info goes on first (she knows this by heart) and quickly gets to the bottom line where the vin is listed. Having done this many times she blows through the standard Porsche WPOZZZ.....and then glances at the file for the middle characters and back again for the final sequence numbers. The ball on the Selectric is flying and Heather senses that one or two characters appearing on the vin line may not be exactly what her rushed glance revealed but the last few numbers are accurate for sure. 'What the hell' she thinks as she lifts the label from the IBM and throws it into the car's folder 'If it's wrong they'll catch it and I'll type another' and she heads for the door for a drive-thru lunch and a quick stop at Walmart for soft drinks and especially the TP absent from the bathroom for the second day.

The easy solution to this vin problem is to warm up the door sticker with the hair dryer and carefully peel off the souvenir label for your file. Thankfully the importer did not rivet an ugly metal sticker onto a beautifully finished door jamb and you'll end up with a smooth painted surface as God and Dr. Porsche meant it to be. The ROW cars (German for sure) never had a vin label applied to the jamb so you'll be returning your Turbo to it's original and intended appearance.

[phrogs]

Its over 26 years old so id doesn't matter anyway. It doesn't need to meet the regs anymore. Check with the Customs and NHTSB.

[member916]

Thanks guys, seems to be a non-issue then.

[Six Gun]

Originally Posted by member916

Thanks guys, seems to be a non-issue then.

Untill you decide to sell it!!

[RarlyL8]

The requirements for, and difficulty level of, registration depend on what state you live.
We are talking about compliance at the federal level, however the individual states simply do not care. Best to have all the paperwork in order at the time of registration.

Trunk VIN can differ from door jam or pillar VIN on later 911/930. I just went through this myself as mine are different. The door jam or pillar VIN is what is listed on the title, while the trunk VIN is more of a build code. This is explained in Bruce Anderson's books.