installed my second 044 pump from T Kraft

[heliolps2]

As some of you know my car , it started as 76 911S , when the 3.3 turbo slightly modified was installed i was told by the shop in Irvine CA who did the work that a single 044 pump up front would be enough, that was back in 1999 and a couple of engines later, I must say back then i tracked the car alot and dragged raced every weekend , in 2001 I had the engine completely redone with all the good stuff , the good new is this engine has now 40,000 miles and a leak down average 2% . Armed with CIS fuel pressure test gauges and a hand held Innovate AFR sniffer , i found that I was running 13.6 afr on top

I ordered a second 044 fuel pump for the rear, Turbo Kraft sold me a very nice kit,Fuel pump brackets fitting wiring kit with fuse link relay and all necessary hard ware for the complete install,

test results tomorrow , hope to make a difference has any seen a difference adding a second 044 pump to rear ?

[RarlyL8]

I have a -044 for the rear but have not received any hardware so it sits. I don't know how the system will handle the extra flow so looking forward to seeing your results.

[heliolps2]

hey Brain, so why do you think you need a 044 pump for the rear , wouldn't you put an 044 up front first?

[Tippy]

I have 2 -044's but for EFI. They're quite noisy but I like that. No problem maintaining factory pressures with factory lines.

[RarlyL8]

I figure the rear pump has a more demanding job. The front pump was replaced with a newer OEM pump. Having a strong rear pump should reduce back pressure on the front pump.

[smurfbus]

I did not see any improvement when I swapped to two 044s. I also tried to rise the system pressure but that did not help much either. IIRC my car works best with 6.9bar system pressure.

I ended up rigging up my own controller for the fuel head. A bit like what STI, Thierry and Stup had done but with different approach. That made a noticeable gain but the main bottle neck is the fuel head it self I'm afraid (then injectors). I'd still like to get the most out of the CIS before I upgrade to EFI for MPG or E85.

There is just something in these old systems like K-jet (that most non Porsche owners hate) that I'd like to keep in the car

[RarlyL8]

If you are going beyond the factory settings of the CIS system you have to throw the spec book out and tune by AFR. 930 CIS is capable of supporting 600HP.

[wjfk32]

Originally Posted by heliolps2

As some of you know my car , it started as 76 911S , when the 3.3 turbo slightly modified was installed i was told by the shop in Irvine CA who did the work that a single 044 pump up front would be enough, that was back in 1999 and a couple of engines later, I must say back then i tracked the car alot and dragged raced every weekend , in 2001 I had the engine completely redone with all the good stuff , the good new is this engine has now 40,000 miles and a leak down average 2% . Armed with CIS fuel pressure test gauges and a hand held Innovate AFR sniffer , i found that I was running 13.6 afr on top

I ordered a second 044 fuel pump for the rear, Turbo Kraft sold me a very nice kit,Fuel pump brackets fitting wiring kit with fuse link relay and all necessary hard ware for the complete install,

test results tomorrow , hope to make a difference has any seen a difference adding a second 044 pump to rear ?

-Helio

If u can post some pics and results that would be great...

Just last week I had a fuel leak again by the accumulator hose...Fixed it and did a test run on the Pkwy...In no time I get challenged ..I didn't feel the kick I normally get...Hmmm...Something is missing..I realized my HKS-AIC 7th injector system was off due to the fuel leak...Turned it back on...Did a run again..Night and Day difference...

Thinking of changing to a 044-pump...On the fence..

Thnxs

Walt

[heliolps2]

I'm up loading as I type , installing the pump was straight forward . I installed it in the engine compartment next to fuel accumulater , I just cut the fuel line which is a dash 6 line which feeds into the accumulater Chris supplied every thing I needed including a 90 deg elbow on the feed end of the pump . Installed less than a hour.

The car started right away which is always a good thing and no leaks ! The system pressure did rise from 6.9 to 7.2 Bar and my warm CP also rose from 2.3 and my boost CP is at 1.8 bar I have hand held AFR Innovate which clips to the tail pipe seems to work fine . AFR on cruse was at a steady 14.9 as boost came in 3rd gear it droped to 10.6 to 10.9 then quickly rose to 12.9 at 6000rpm's plus, which better than my 13.6 afr i had originaly but still wasn't happy , I reshimmed the FD lowered my system pressure to 6.9 . I also drilled a hole on the brass cap on the back fo the WUR for quick adjustments . I raised my WCP to 2.5 now cruiseing at 14.5 , 14.7 it doesn't feel as responsive as it did when it was set at 14.1 but just bairley .

I found this part was strang 3rd gear pulls gave me 10.9 thru 12.9 as the rpm's rose to 6000 plus. In 4th gear it would go from mid 10's to l2.3 ,12,5 until about 6000 rpm's then raiseing to 12.9 at 6000 rpm's plus now in 5th gear again droped from the mid 10's then it goes into the high 11's up 6000 then goes up to the mid 12's after 6000 rpm's . Why? It seemed that every time I did a 3rd gear pull the results where a little different each time , some times the AFR's would stay in the low 12's other times it would go into the high 12's again Why?

[heliolps2]

here's the pic's of the pump intstalled

[wjfk32]

GOOD PICS

I have similar afr ratios like yours, 3rd gear to 6000rpms as to 4th and-5th gear (915)..I tend to be richer 60-130mph in starting at a higher gear....

Thinking the rpms climb quicker at a lower gear..harder to keep up...while the taller gear takes more time to hit 6000rpm...

Now, the weather is getting colder and tend to run a little richer..

It's CIS, makes u more crazy...

Walt

[JFairman]

Raising system pressure alone will not give you more fuel at high rpms under boost. Hydraulic control pressure will go up at the same time and that works against or counteracts what you're trying to achieve.

You have to lower boost control pressure to compensate for the higher system fuel pressure.
If you do that correctly then you can have richer boosted AFRs at 6500rpms.

You have to completely remove the gold cadmium plated steel plug in the bottom of the CPR you said you drilled a hole in to reach the 4mm allen head warm cruise adjustment and make a tool like Brian Leask provides with his adjustable control pressure regulator modification to pull the spring seat/boost control pressure adjustment outwards to lower internal spring tension preload on the return line fuel metering disc under the internal fuel metering orifice in the top of the CPR.

Midrange boost control pressure will also go lower when you do that and if AFR becomes too rich at those rpms then installing a cheap digital programable summit racing rpm switch or the ancient and overrated much more expensive MSD rpm switch and a pierburg vacuum solenoid in the boost signal line to delay boost pressure going to the bottom of the CPR will fix that.

[JFairman]

Also, if the 044 pump starts buzzing loudly it's cavitating. The rubber sleeve thing thats wrapped around it does increase the heat inside the fuel pump motor and rollers even though fuel is constantly flowing through it and returning to the gas tank so if the pump becomes noisy after driving a while try removing it.

It looks like a small german hose clamp is holding the high pressure fuel line on the banjo fitting on the fuel pump.
Thats OK on a low pressure install like for a carburator or for initial installation to see how things are working but in this car that will eventually become a fire waiting to happen.
Change that to a crimped on permanent fitting asap.

[heliolps2]

Question ? When lowering the boost CP by raising the disc ? Which could be taped out if I don't have the tool ? Will I have more turbo lag ?

[JFairman]

"Question ? When lowering the boost CP by raising the disc ?"
You don't raise the spring seat disc, you lower it or draw it out like I said before so it's closer to being flush with the bottom of the CPR to lower boost CP.

"Which could be taped out if I don't have the tool ?"
Thats a confusing question.. and it would be wrong of me to take a picture of Brian Leask's tool for you and anybody else to copy it.

You could do it by threading a bolt into the threads above the warm cruise adjustment allen head and use needle nose pliers to carefully pry it all the way outwards and then tap it back in with a brass drift punch or use a C clamp to press it back in to adjust your boost CP.

"Will I have more turbo lag ?"
Nope. Not if you get it dialed in right.

With all the other expensive modification stuff you've listed I'm surprised you don't have a Brian Leask adjustable CPR now.
He owns and drives a 930 and he's a mechanical engineer by trade. You should just have him and not anyone else modify yours.

[heliolps2]

Thank you JFairman , can you shed some light on the why different AFR's in different the gears ? Or if any one else has some info please share ! And have any one ever seen the HP or TQ numbers change depending on the timing you would set it on , let's say 26deg vs 29 deg that run . The dizzy is an USA 930/68 stock stupid question but I though I would ask any way

[full quack]

Uhmmm...am I the only one here that thinks a high pressure fuel pump inside the engine compartment is kinda a bad idea....fire comes to mind.

Just a knee jerk reaction to the photos, you can tag me as paranoid, but.......


Mark

[heliolps2]

Hey Mark , the 965 I believe runs the full pump in side the engine compartment , maybe some can shed some light on that .

[full quack]

I've seen first hand what an 044 pump does when the "O" ring sealing the inner pump from the outer housing, fails.
All I can say, is that I now have the cleanest garage floor on the planet.

Mark

[heliolps2]

Wow really, good to know, I have had an 044 up front 13 years with no issues , not the it couldn't happen . I hope not . Thanks for the info mark

Helio