Locking Distributor & Setting Timing for MSD

[Norm K]

Figured I should hear from the experts before I take the final hook-up plunge with my programmable 6AL-2, as I'm a bit uncertain as to the proper order of things.

Is it as (relatively) simple as setting the timing where I want it at idle and 4K, carefully marking the exact position of the distributor, pulling the distributor, removing the vacuum pot and locking the weights, reinstalling the dizzy, making certain to rotate it back to the very carefully measured marks, then hooking up the MAP (3 Bar) and downloading the timing and boost curves?

Please let me know if I'm missing something or thinking about this completely wrong.

Thanks!

Norm

[Norm K]

Uh oh, crickets is typically not a good sign.

Anyone?

[9Thirty]

My tuner did not lock the distributor in place. He actually used it with the MSD programmable. I can give you his contact information if you are interested. I have the dyno sheet attached to the thread "How much power do you have and how did you get there?" This dyno run was performed after he dialed in the MSD. Page 5, post 97.

[stevie 77 930]

Try this post. Some very good info on locking down the distributor
MSD Success

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by stevie 77 930

Try this post. Some very good info on locking down the distributor
MSD Success

Thanks, I've read that (and other similar threads) over several times. My question has not to do with the mechanics of locking of the distributor (that's actually pretty easy) but with the actual timing settings. Do I set the timing, and mark the exact position of the distributor before removing, disassembing, reassembling and reinstalling it? Or do I perform the locking procedure, install the locked distributor and set the timing from there. If the latter, how do I accomplish this? With the weights locked in full advance how do I know what the actual timing setting is - a beginning point, if you will, so I know how much timing to pull out? I should mention that by distributor position, I'm not referring to cylinder/rotor orientation, which is a given, but to the rotational position of the distributor itself.

[PrimeMvr]

Either way you describe will work. What I did was remove both lines from the pot and plug them. Set the timing to 0 at idle. Mark where the adjuster slide is and where the rotor is pointing relative to the dizzy shell and pull it out.

Lock in full advance. Theoretically when you put it back in you should be at 29 degrees BTDC now. Set your MSD to pull out 20 degrees up to 1500 RPM. This is just a really conservative starting point to get the engine running and check your work with a timing light.

After I felt confident that I knew where everything was, I started pulling retard out of the MSD programming while opening the idle adjustment so that I could keep it running at about 1300 RPM idle while getting the MSD retard to 0. Mine won't idle much below that with full advance. Then you can use your timing light to verify that your dizzy truly is set at the static timing that you want.

Someone will probably say this is a bit of overkill, but it gave me warm fuzzies to know that mechanically I was where I wanted to be, then I could play with the RPM and boost curves on the MSD without worrying about being more advanced than I thought I was.

[Norm K]

Ok, Prime, now I just feel silly. I don't know how I missed that it pretty much has to be at 29* when the dizzy is bolted down at 0* with the vacuum pot (I have just the one connection ... Euro car) disconnected, the engine at idle and the weights locked at full advance. Damn these senior moments - they're coming at me more and more frequently these days!

[fredmeister]

Originally Posted by nkowi

Ok, Prime, now I just feel silly. I don't know how I missed that it pretty much has to be at 29* when the dizzy is bolted down at 0* with the vacuum pot (I have just the one connection ... Euro car) disconnected, the engine at idle and the weights locked at full advance. Damn these senior moments - they're coming at me more and more frequently these days!

Pull the cap off with the dizzy reinstalled and rotate the engine to TDC on number 1 cylinder. The center of the rotor should be pointing about 14.5 degrees past the little hash mark on the distributor body. Remember that 1 degree of rotor rotation equals 2 degrees of crank angle.
The way the MSD works is it will retard out timing from a full or total advanced setting.
So following what I outlined should start you off close to 9 degrees BTDC initial timing if your MSD retard curves take out 20 degrees of timing. Once the engine is running just time it the normal way at idle by turning the dizzy until it gets to exactly 9 degrees BTDC and then lock it down.
Run it up to 4000 rpm or so and see if it shows 29 degrees total advance, provided your MSD curves are all in by 4000rpm and you are not retarding any at vacuum (no load condition).

[pkabush]

I'm following this thread, (and others) closely. This one of the next things I'l like to do.
Keep us posted

[CAmey86-930]

I just completed the installation of my 6AL-2, locked the weights and removed pot and pulled that to full advance. Installed the dist back in car at 36*BTDC. Remember BTDC is advance and ATDC is retard and your 6AL-2 is only capable of Retarding the timing. The easiest way to verify your base timing is to get a timing light with a advance/retard buttons on it and line up your TDC mark on your crank pulley. You MUST know your base timing to set your spark curves up correctly. I started the car with the MSD at 0(not changing timing at all)it just about spark locked but did start. Then I verified the timing with the adjustable light. Then I set the MSD to pull the full 25* out at idle and quickly ramps up from there. Purrs like a kitten at idle and low end torque felt a lot better but the only chance I had to drive the car it was very cold and I couldn't get any heat in the engine, couldn't get it above 165(22 outside). So I didn't get it up on boost and the way the weather is going around here it's not looking good for anytime soon. I pretty much set it up from Cole and some of the other guys on the "ultimate" thread. There's so much good info there it's a little over whelming. I'll try to get the snapshot of the curves off the other computer and post them. I would love to see what other people are doing with these boxes.

[Norm K]

Well, I've run into a silly issue that hopefully someone who's been through this can help with.

I can't get the MSD 6530 to "talk" with any of my computers and therefore cannot transfer the curves from the computer to the MSD. I'm on my third adapter, this latest one recommended by and MSD tech on their support website ... no joy. I've also tried three different laptops ... nada.

I've tried every COM Port ... still nothing. The light on the adapter will blink when the COM Port number it's plugged into is matched to the port selection in the MSD software, but the software indicates that no "product" is detected. The software shows a loopback test when the port selection is on port 3 - problem is, the USB ports on the computers are numbers 9 and 10.

Any suggestions?

[CAmey86-930]

2 things come to mind:
1 MSD box is powered up right, both red wires are hot?
2 Do you have the MSD plugged in when your connecting the usb cable?

Serial to usb converters can be a real PITA as you are finding out. I have had luck with plugging in the usb by itself(letting the computer recognize it) then plug in the MSD.

I have had the best luck with the one from Radio Shack. Don't know why but it seems to work the best.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by CAmey86-930

2 things come to mind:
1 MSD box is powered up right, both red wires are hot?
2 Do you have the MSD plugged in when your connecting the usb cable?

Serial to usb converters can be a real PITA as you are finding out. I have had luck with plugging in the usb by itself(letting the computer recognize it) then plug in the MSD.

I have had the best luck with the one from Radio Shack. Don't know why but it seems to work the best.

MSD box is installed in the car, both red wires are connected and it's operating in place of the factory CDI box (red light on the box comes on when the car is started) so I'm assuming it's not a wiring issue. Still, I should ask; could the engine start and run, and the MSD light come on if there was no power to the 12V switched (smaller of the two red wires) source?

The second USB adapter I tried was recently returned to Radio Shack, replaced with the one MSD seems to favor.

I'll go back and try various orders-of-connection and see if that helps.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[CAmey86-930]

No, Sounds like you have it wired correctly. And no you must have power on the small red wire or it wouldn't start.

But when your trying to communicate with the MSD your key must be in the on position or jump power to the small red wire or the computer won't see the MSD.

[jbt62]

this thread seems pertinent to my current situation and thought I would ask for some sage wisdom-- I have an 83 euro 930 with a k27/29 and upgraded intercooler. what can I do to improve the ignition system and what exactly will I need to purchase to accomplish this ? I am a recent convert and am not ashamed to admit I haven't a clue when it comes to upgrading my 930. thanks in advance !

[CAmey86-930]

The MSD 6AL-2 is a great upgrade for the 930's. A lot of guys don't care for the MSD boxes but it's hard to deny advantages of this box. I opened my spark plug gap .015 and with the curves I'm running I really think it ran a lot better off turbo. With the 6AL-2 you get infinite spark curve adjustment, 3 rev limiters, hotter and longer spark and the ability to adjust timing in the car on the fly for tuning. Everything you need is in the box. Although I would recommend the hotter MSD coil. But you should lock your dist. down also. The only thing I would like to see added is some kind of fail safe for the map sensor. I got mine on Amazon through MVP Motorsportrs for $318.00, thats the best price I could find.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by CAmey86-930

Everything you need is in the box.

Except for a proper cable. The 6AL-2 uses a (used to be) standard female 9 pin serial connection, and MSD provides a male-by-female 9 pin cable. So the user plugs the male end of the cable into the MSD box and then ... oops. They're left holding the female end of the 9 pin serial cable but looking at the 15 pin VGA and USB connections on their laptop. I have one Mac and three PC laptops and nary a one has a spot into which one can plug the female end of the cable provided by MSD. So, three different adapters later - the most recent of which is the brand and model recommended by MSD - and I still have no communication between the 6AL-2 and any of the laptops. Sure glad it's the four day Thanksgiving weekend so there's no one to talk to at MSD.

[CAmey86-930]

Yes, it would be awesome if it was just USB, but I would imagine it would be bigger is size or more expensive or something I hope. I use a windows laptop with a docking station with a serial port. But I know the problems of the serial to usb converter well. What operating system are you using (ie-windows XP, windows 7) maybe I can help

[Norm K]

Hadn't thought of the docking station. If I can't get this figured out this weekend I might bring one home Monday afternoon. Thanks for the idea.

In the meantime, one laptop has Windows 7 Home Premium and two have Windows 7 Professional.

[CAmey86-930]

Sorry for the delay, I stepped away from the computer. OK window7, Plug your adapter into the computer only, hit start, my computer, then system properties at the top, then Device Manager on the left. That should open up a window (Device Manager) do you have anything listed under Ports(Com & Lpt)