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dos531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Rowland Heights, CA
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I am not familiar with the motronic system, but as a rule of thumb motors need 3 things to start. Fuel, Air, and Spark. Fuel is reaching the rails, but are the injectors firing? Spray some starter fluid into the intake and see if it starts.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchells View Post
Sorry for the delay, work and visiting family has consumed the week.

Fuel is reaching the fuel rails, I have a spark at the plugs, I don't have a DME relay anywhere and the motronic is under the pass seat.

I tried cranking it with the gas pedal down with no change.

I'm about ready to give up and sell it as is :-(
You're running Motronic, w/AFM.. but there is no DME relay?
- then how id the DME (Motronic unit) getting its signal?


Also, have you checked the reference sensor at the flywheel.. again no signal/no start.

As for the car.. what is it built on exactly?
- A mid year, SC, Carrera, 930, ?
- What suspension and brakes underneath etc?
- Any interior pics?

Thx
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:52 AM
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KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is what I subscrib to. Three things that you need for an engine to run (fuel, air, spark)
You obviously have air.... you said that you have spark at the plugs.... then the only thing left is fuel! You injectors are more than likey, not firing. Why?? As Onboost stated above, Is the ECU seeing a signal at the crank? ( the ECU need this to calculate engine RPM, as well as engine position.

Take the passenger seat out (not more than a 30 minute job) and take some pictures of what you have mounted there. Alos, are the plugs wet with fuel if you take them out?? If so, then the injectors may befiring, but... if the engine is SO far out of time, then you might not be able to get it fired off...

Dont give up!!!!!
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Last edited by turbobrat930; 07-18-2014 at 10:20 AM..
Old 07-18-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:


Quote de Mitchells



Sorry for the delay, work and visiting family has consumed the week.



Fuel is reaching the fuel rails, I have a spark at the plugs, I don't have a DME relay anywhere and the motronic is under the pass seat.



I tried cranking it with the gas pedal down with no change.



I'm about ready to give up and sell it as is :-(


You're running Motronic, w/AFM.. but there is no DME relay?

- then how id the DME (Motronic unit) getting its signal?





Also, have you checked the reference sensor at the flywheel.. again no signal/no start.



As for the car.. what is it built on exactly?

- A mid year, SC, Carrera, 930, ?

- What suspension and brakes underneath etc?

- Any interior pics?



Thx

What does the ref sensor look like?

I will post some pics this evening it won't let me from my phone

It's built on a '77 SC, the car was in Germany when my father purchased it, it was then disassembled and brought over here and put back together on a 77 SC chassis ( that was modified ), I was 8-9 at the time and remember watching it come together. ( as a note, I have no documents to verify the history of the car at this stage
In its life)

As for the Suspension It has coil overs ( ill post pictures this evening )


Thanks again
Mike
Old 07-18-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is what I subscrib to. Three things that you need for an engine to run (fuel, air, spark)

You obviously have air.... you said that you have spark at the plugs.... then the only thing left is fuel! You injectors are more than likey, not firing. Why?? As Onboost stated above, Is the ECU seeing a signal at the crank? ( the ECU need this to calculate engine RPM, as well as engine position.



Take the passenger seat out (not more than a 30 minute job) and take some pictures of what you have mounted there. Alos, are the plugs wet with fuel if you take them out?? If so, then the injectors may befiring, but... if the engine is SO far out of time, then you might not be able to get it fired off...



Dont give up!!!!!
I will, how can I check to see if the injectors are firing?

Plugs are not wet.

It was perfect then out of the blue here I sit its very frustrating

Mike
Old 07-18-2014, 10:31 AM
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Try this... This will give most of the armchair mechanics on this board an anurism... Give it a 5 second whiff of starting fluid. (Count to 5 when you spray this directlyinto the airbox) NO MORE and then start it immediately.

Another thought is that you might consider jump starting it. Some ecu's need 11.6 volts to start. You may have enough power there to spinthe car over and get spark but the injectors may not be firing. We ran ointo this on our race car at laguna seca 5 minutes before the race...
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:42 AM
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Here are some pictures as requested while I wait to try some of the new suggestions




Old 07-18-2014, 12:42 PM
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Well, I need some starter fluid and I can't find our jumper cables so it will have to wait until tomorrow. If I cant figure this out this weekend I may just put it on the market as is.

Last edited by Mitchells; 07-18-2014 at 03:33 PM..
Old 07-18-2014, 02:21 PM
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Jumper cables gave me nothing, I have not went to get starter fluid yet

As I go to pull spark plugs out and the first ones lead on top comes off and for the life of me I can't get the plug to loosen.

Finally got the plug out going to replace them all while I'm at it

Last edited by Mitchells; 07-19-2014 at 07:26 AM..
Old 07-19-2014, 06:19 AM
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This looks like a mixture of some creative thinking and good workmanship, but a few things that could definite be improved upon. Some of the electrical connections are sub-standard and they sometimes get loose.. it only takes one connection to screw up and you have a no fire situation. Looking at your under seat wiring and wondering if this might have happened. It can be tedious chasing down wires. If you know anyone that understands vehicle electricals that might help.. take advantage of it.

Some things are most unlikely since it was running ok last time. Don't undo things that generally remain solid. Hard parts are most unlikely to have changed. You are getting fuel at the injectors, so at least one pump is functioning and you aren't out of fuel [I once wasted days on my 930 because of a stuck gas gauge reading a half tank when I was out of fuel!].

Consider this:

Beg, borrow, or steal a Volt meter and confirm your voltage. Yes, it will crank ok but may not start unless you have 12v+.

If you only have one pump working it also may not start. Important to make sure you test to hear each fuel pump and you probably have fuses [and more] for each one. This being a one off it is just a guess the specifics.

You don't have starting fluid.. OK. You can use WD-40. Yes! I used to be involved with some radical race cars and needed this a lot. I became concerned about washing down the cylinder walls with the harsh starting fluids all the time and I tried WD-40 on a lark - it works. I only use WD-40 now.

I don't know if your mention of selling it is that you intend to sell it regardless or if you are disgusted with the situation [been there also]. I must say- do NOT sell it non-running. It is too much of a one-off and rarely do they get good money unless they are perfect. [The recent upsurge in 930 prices is not going to apply to a non-930 chassis like this. You will get beaten up badly if you sell it like it sits.]

It is so interesting and your father built it... perhaps it makes sense to move it along but I personally hope you decide to keep and enjoy it. I have been disgusted with my special 930 many times and thought about selling it, but it has a lot of history and I am delighted ever time I look into the garage and see it peeking back begging me for a little exercise. Your results may vary.
Old 08-03-2014, 01:32 PM
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