How did I kill my 044 in less than 2k miles?

[dos531]

My replacement pump makes noise periodically, mostly when the tank is getting low. Not sure why, but it doesnt seem to effect its operation.

[quattrorunner]

I'm currently on only one 044 pump. No other fuel pump being used. I've been curious about this as a problem with my AFR though. But I never run out of fuel as far as I can tell. My problem is idle and cruise richness. My cruise highway AFR is leaner. I plan to rectify this with my BL WUR once other unrelated issues are worked out.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by JFairman

"thanks, and yes I plan to just out of queriousity"

Yeah I peeled a part a dead bosch one from an L jetronic BMW 7 series years ago out of curiosity.
The two curved magnets inside them are strong and make killer refrigerator magnets.

You know you're a gearhead when the magnets on your fridge are from a fuel pump.

-Jeff Foxworthy

[dh930turbo]

I've always had a soft buzzing from my front pump since I've had the car (10 years), however I drove it yesterday, it ran fine with no differences until I made my final journey of the day of about 3 miles to put the car away.

The front pump was really loud as soon as I started it up, the revs were a bit up and down 700-950 for a minute of so before settling at 850, but the buzzing was replaced with more like a loud grinding (I could hear it over the engine noise as I was driving along) from the front pump area for the whole 3 miles despite the car driving well and pulling hard?

Two questions -

Does that mean it's terminal for the front pump?

If so, I've been reading Waynes book (101) about changing the pump, do I really need to drain the fuel tank or can I just clamp off the hoses?? I have half a tank of fuel so it would be a bit of a problem. Or is it worth draining the tank and checking that out for debris etc??

Thanks in advance!

[krasuskyp]

I just swapped mine out 2 nights ago with 1/2 tank as well, it's not too bad a job.

I went w/ dual 044's... if you go this route, ensure you receive a legitimate Made in Czech example, there are a ton of knockoff "Made in Germany" examples out there which are proven junk unfortunately (use of these does require 2 fitting adapters - 1 for front output, 1 for rear inlet... I got mine from Chris Carroll @ TurboKraft).

jack nose of car up as far as you possibly can w/o the tailpipe hitting the ground - use jackstands, and have a fire extinguisher and plenty of rags on hand just in case... and ensure you're in a well ventilated workspace as the fumes suck bauls

something like this provides for decent work room under there - anything less (BTDT prior time) proves annoying and frustrating being crammed:



then:

• remove the skid plate - 2 large hex bolts secure the rear and are shared by the sway bar brackets (the bar exerts some force upon the treads - somewhat upon removal, but moreso on reinstall), and 2 17mm (IIRC) nuts on the front
  
• clamp the feed line w/ vicegrips or other method - I used 3 pair and it was barely enough, still allowed for an annoying trickle which filled maybe 3" of a bucket - (*note: the feed line may WELL BE brittle and puncture when doing this - if you have the ability to drain the tank, now's a great time to replace that short section of rubber hose... be sure to have one on hand - my closest FLAPS did not have that ID hose in stock, I had to try a few)
  
• loosen the pump bracket w/ a screwdriver
  
• remove ground connection on bottom (8mm on my 044), being sure to catch the tiny washer (*note: be careful to not pull the loop connector off of the wire - the wires are EXACT length and do not afford much if any room to maneuver them unfortunately... BTDT, had to add a wire extension)
  
• remove fuel line on passenger side of pump (17mm/19mm on my 044), again - catch washer / be careful of connector
  
• remove power connection on top (10mm on my 044)
  
• remove feed line w/ a screwdriver
  
• swap pumps
  
• install is reverse of removal 8-)

my only caveat is to *be careful when manipulating the pump trying to get the output line off*... (this being the 2nd time I've swapped pumps up there proved to be more than the OE feed line which runs thru the tunnel was willing to accept and it sprung a massive pinhole leak just under the swage fitting... game over)

good luck, HTH...

[dh930turbo]

Thanks Paul.

I've ordered up a replacement front pump. Do you think it's worth changing the rear one out too?? It doesn't make a sound when running unlike the front one which has always made the buzzing noise from day one!

[JFairman]

If the rear pump isn't making a lot of noise there's no reason to replace it. If the motor is stock or close to it there's no reason to remove the original ones to install 044 pumps either.
The original made in Germany Bosch fuel pumps are much higher quality than the current day "genuine" 044 pumps.

[dh930turbo]

My car is completely original except the sports exhaust. I haven't gone for 044, I ordered a genuine parts one from Porsche today.....i'm now £492.00 (£410.00 + vat) lighter!!

[krasuskyp]

I wasn't suggesting to go 044, Jim - was only referencing my application

but after reading ^the price paid^ (!!!)...

...I'd 100% have gone 044.

Crykie!

[rufrob]

I have been having trouble with my 044 pumps too. First I installed an 044 up front and had trouble with burnt fusible links. I rewired the fuse to run off the a/c feed at the fuse box. Then the front pump failed after about 1 year. I replaced it then the rear pump failed. I installed 044 at the rear and front then the front pump failed again after3 months. Now the front pump is noisy but has not failed, yet. I decided to drain the tank and check the fuel hose and piping. I realized the fuel did not flow easily, unless the filler cap was loose. So there seems to be problem with the venting system. The 044 pulls a lot more than the standard pump so if there is a problem with the venting system, could there will be extra strain on the pump.
Has anyone looked into this? I found a few collapsed and old vent lines I replaced them yesterday. No time yet to test.

[jsveb]

As a side note. The Bosch-Siemens Coorp. is big in Europe, I was recently informed that Bosch has moved its Czech appliance factory back to Germany. Maybe this will also influence their pump division?

[krasuskyp]

Originally Posted by rufrob

I have been having trouble with my 044 pumps too. First I installed an 044 up front and had trouble with burnt fusible links. I rewired the fuse to run off the a/c feed at the fuse box. Then the front pump failed after about 1 year. I replaced it then the rear pump failed. I installed 044 at the rear and front then the front pump failed again after3 months. Now the front pump is noisy but has not failed, yet. I decided to drain the tank and check the fuel hose and piping. I realized the fuel did not flow easily, unless the filler cap was loose. So there seems to be problem with the venting system. The 044 pulls a lot more than the standard pump so if there is a problem with the venting system, could there will be extra strain on the pump.
Has anyone looked into this? I found a few collapsed and old vent lines I replaced them yesterday. No time yet to test.

Interesting - can you share photos / details of which vent lines you found? Would love to check mine as well.

Bummer about all your failures - hopefully (well, you know what I mean) those are due to them being knockoffs and not a larger issue.

Can't say I'm at all in the mood to touch another FP on my car after doing both of them 2x in a year... nope.

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by jsveb

As a side note. The Bosch-Siemens Coorp. is big in Europe, I was recently informed that Bosch has moved its Czech appliance factory back to Germany. Maybe this will also influence their pump division?

That sounds like the best news I've heard in a while.
Women from Czech Republic are incredibly beautiful but their fuel pumps are screamers.

[dh930turbo]

I just got told by Porsche that the pump would be coming from Germany, which may be true but I doubt it was made there, as labour costs are very high compared to Czech Republic or Poland or any euro countries on the eastern side.

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by JFairman

....but their fuel pumps are screamers.

....so are the women

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by JFairman

If the rear pump isn't making a lot of noise there's no reason to replace it. If the motor is stock or close to it there's no reason to remove the original ones to install 044 pumps either.
The original made in Germany Bosch fuel pumps are much higher quality than the current day "genuine" 044 pumps.

Above cannot be stressed enough...

I wonder if Denso makes a capable pump? Never had one fail over the years. Some custom work required, no doubt.

[dh930turbo]

So I changed out the pump at the weekend and can confirm it's still made in Czech Republic as it's stamped on the casing.
The change over was fairly simple and mu previous fear about not being able to hold back the tide of fuel trying to escape was totally unfounded. A couple of decent hose clamps and no problems.
While it's not yet re-connected I plan to flush the tank and change out the fuel filter.

Am I correct in understanding that the fuel filter is accessible from the large hex bolt seated in the underside of the fuel tank??

Thanks

[Reanimotion]

This might be a useful reference

Bosch Australia, Fuel pump test results by part number ( interesting note is the 044 tests at the same flow as my 984)

http://apps.bosch.com...../Fuelpumpflowrates.PDF

Also from Bosch Motorsport with delivery/pressure curves

http://www.bosch..../Fuel_Pump_FP_200_Datasheet.pdf
the standard FP200 is rated at 5bar and is the normal 044 part #
they also list an 8bar unit with a motorsport part #

[rufrob]

Well its even noisier now. I cleared the evap system and loosened the front subframe to check the hoses were not crimped in anyway. Put it all back together and its quiet for about the first 10-15 minutes then gets gradually noisier. No running issues and the fuses and relay are not particularly hot. I will try swapping front to back pumps and see whats what. I just dont want to be stuck.

[rufrob]

I think I sorted it. I remove the pump and found the upper, rubber mount was broken and the positive terminal was loose. So i swapped in another brand new pump, but following my mechanics advise I pre-filled it with oil. Started it and, its just a tiny bit noisier than OEM. I drove about 40 miles yesterday with no issues. BTW some of the the pump clamp teeth were damaged which prohibited further looseness allowing it to touch the pan. Also the 044 is larger than OEM so some spacers on the pan nuts will aid with clearance. Now to see if the sell will take the noisy pump back.