Bob, looking good...I've learned there's invariably lots of grubby work in any worthwhile effort, at least as it relates to a car project. Best, John

think I finished the last of the sand blasting yesterday. it was funny spinning the tub over and seeing the sand fly around.... despite the tarp, gave the shop driveway a bit of a white chritmas look.

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got the car back in the shop. continue the grinding away of putty and other rubbery stuff that the sand blast would not clean. think I am getting close to finishing that work. then clean and final sanding....:D

after getting the modified rear calipers back, they did such a great job cleaning them up I had to clean and repaint the fronts that were in a bit rougher shape.

now to get rotors and put them together.

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looking over web sites for parts that will need to be welded into the tub.

so far my list includes:
* front through body sway bar reinforcement.
* rear shock tower reinforcement (only plan coil over helper springs)
* RSR front oil cooler deflector pan
* new rear sway bar brackets

anyone have more suggestions? go ahead ... spend my money.

considered putting the oil coolers in the rear fender vents. created a couple threads to research and got feedback and determined that was not a good approach.

so now that I decided to do a front valance cooler... when the time comes will get the ER finned metal lines.

ordered all of the above.

been working on the rebuild of my 951's engine. so while waiting for the head work and other parts getting back to cleaning this tub.

my cousin is a welder and will be in for a couple weeks. may get a chance to have her do the welding.

and from a test fit realized how much the sunroof opening has to be ground back to allow a flush fit of the panel. the panel offset is just the thickness of the roof metal.

well went to work on the sunroof area with a grinder. went around the entire opening grinding off the edges so I end up with just the sheet metal.

I had even called rennline to confirm my suspicion this was needed. the offset of the panel is basically just the thickness of the roof metal.

when grinding off the edge on the rear of the sunroof opening it had a folded over edge. after grinding that off the brace that goes across the roof pulled off easily. but when I did the roof flexed down.

it appears that brace is bonded in place and then the roof edge is folded over. with that folded lip removed the brace pulled off very easily. most of the bonding had let go.

I think this had been part of the sunroof cassette I removed.

will need to bond that back in and leave room for the panel. will use the guide that came with the panel to get the curve of the roof back to where is needs to be when bonding that brace back in.

had not read anything about this in other threads. any advice on how this should have been done for the next person doing this?

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Bob, was that an oh $hit moment? Meaning, are you at all worried about getting the roof shape correct again? Best, John

not too worried. hoping to get some suggestions.

I am assuming you are going to have the new panel welded in? That is the best way to do it, but takes some skill.

I created a couple of cardboard templets to make sure my roof's couture was correct during the process. I took those off a friend's perfect and original car.

However my roof did not sag like yours. Maybe use a couple of sheet metal screws to hold the brace in place to restore the original shape during the process. Or use something like silicone seal to glue it back, so you can use a heat gun to melt the glue when done.

Bob, I'm not a bodyman.

I filled a sunroof using a donor skin from slick lid car, butt welded no flange.

I removed the entire sunroof cassette and my first observation was the roof skin went limp. Similar to you I had the luxury of having the roof upside down so I placed shot bags on the donor skin to weight the roof and restore contour, though amount and placement of weight would alter the contour, it was touchy.

At this point I scribed my insert and trimmed it, then concocted a way to hold it in place for welding.

I injected too much heat in the welding process (I'm not a bodyman...) and the shrinkage resulted in a limp roof skin. I enlisted a friend who is a retired bodyman and he carefully bucked the skin to stretch it back to contour. It took the two of us only two hours. I noticed he was watching for soft spots which needed slight amounts of added stretch to gain uniform strength. The end result was a smooth uniform skin. Minimal filler used, mostly high build primer.

I have no advice aside from using small mig spot welds until completely welded. And don't inject too much heat when grinding the welds as this too will cause shrinkage. Don't be surprised if you end up doing some metal working. A person who has done a few 911 sunroofs will undoubtably have a refined process, and like most things in autobody it's an acquired skill.

got to looking more at this and starting to develop a plan.

I have a professional welder coming to look today. she is my 21 yr old cousin. after taking welding in high school and loved it, after HS graduation spent over a year in welding school in Jacksonville, FL. after finishing welding school had been working at the ship yard there for over a year.

tried to just clamp the cross brace in and did not return the roof shape completely to original. I have the template from rennline of the proper roof contour.

my current thinking is to sit the panel in place and then lay the cross brace on the panel lip. and do a little bending of that cross brace if needed to get the shape correct.

one thing I think helped produce the roof curvature was that little folded lip on the rear of the sunroof opening. such a fold tends to help hold a shape.

once bonded in place and the roof contour correct, have her do little tack welds all around before filling with metal body filler.

Let us know what she says.

she and dad stopped by yesterday. she can weld anything. but the shape of the roof, that's up to me.....

sigh.

Another thing to consider is the squareness of the windshield opening. You may want to put some bracing in the windshield opening. Those bodies can flex so be careful.

Good to hear she is up to the welding. Welding car bodies is a special art.

You have to prop the roof into place with an adjustable rod.

You have to prop it while clamping it.

thanks Fixer. as noted in my reply to your PM, can turn the car upside down on the rotisserie to get it fitted and pressed back to the correct form.

trackrash,
since it is an empty tub it is very light.

Oh, she said she would not do the roof without a tig, metal too thin for mig. but I am suspecting she thought I wanted the entire edge of the sunroof opening welded, rather than some spot welds.

but will wait for this to get done when at the paint shop. they have a guy who is really good working on body panels and welding them.

lay/bond the panel in place and then lay/bond the cross bar with the edge of the bar overlapping the edge of the roof panel. lay some weights on it until the roof shape matches the template.

with me luck when this time come.

getting the areas ground clean for the shock tower reinforcement brackets and the inside fender area for the through body sway bar reinforcements.

got those areas preped.... next to work on front oil cooler deflector pan and get the roll cage to the shop to determine where to weld the bolt-in plates.

forgot the pics. SmileWavy

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front oil cooler deflector pan.

after some discussion with the supplier will bond in place and then add some sheet metal screws rather than weld.

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past the point of no return on this.

did the rough cut and now to do the finial trimming/fitting. talking to the supplier he said I needed to either cut out some of the battery tray or trim the panel. did not want to cut the battery tray so will trim the panel.

also got the rear sway bar mounts cut off.

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think I have the deflector pan trimmed to fit. will take another look and finish the fit. chose to not cut out part of the battery tray, so trimmed around it.

will initially just use a few sheet metal screws to hold it in place, then need to do the rest of the trimming of the tub opening to match.

talked to the guy who will be doing some of the welding for me, this included. may be taking the tub to him soon, then off to the paint shop.

my cousin was only hear for a week, did not have much time, and I could not borrow a tig.

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got the front opening done. rather than cut back the front more, thinking of cutting metal plates to have welded over the end areas to close in those irregular areas. especially since I did not cut out the battery tray.

next, start working on the plates for the bolt in cage.

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guy picked up the oil pan to weld the baffle and tube support bracket.

boxed up some more lines to ship to Len for rebuild/plating and Shaun for plating....

back to cleaning/grinding areas to be welded. guy will bring his kit to my shop, just a block down the street from him.

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started fitting the cage. need to drill out holes for the captured nuts to fit down into the frame when the plates are welded in. and continued work on preping the areas where stuff will get welded.

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got most of the holes cut to accommodate the captured nut on the plates.

weld plate to frame, bolt cage to plate.

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not long ago I connected with another guy in the middle of a build. after a few discussions and looking at his thread I have become very interested in doing an LS3 or maybe an LS7 conversion.

so let the flaming and fireworks begin.....

not unfamiliar with these conversions but had not originally though of doing this. maybe when I realized the engine needed a total rebuild....

so not researching info and am being drawn to the LS conversion...

Would be neat to investigate a Cayenne turbo swap... Still "naughty" but pretty unique and "keeping it in the family"

Of course I have ZERO idea if the swap can work, dimensionally.

I say, both of you need to put down the pipe.
I’m far from a purist but, I’d take a 3.3 T motor over either of those motors any day all day.
Besides, don’t you already have the 3.3 with all the machine work done ?

I have the 3.3 motor and some stuff at a shop. not sure if the shop ever got to work on my parts. I just got an email from the shop yesterday saying they would call me first of the week. we'll see.

so, I am still facing a complete build of the engine, along with having a lot of other stuff rebuild such as the CIS fuel head, CIS AFM, turbo, etc. To be candid I am a little intimidated by the 3.3. not just to put it all back together properly, but then the 'black art' of CIS tuning is there. I do have local resources expert in this...

from all I hear/read you install the LS3, and change oil each year. very low maintenance.

have your ever driven/ridden in a LS conversion 911? I have ridden in one and the charater of the engines are completely different. 3.3 you wait of the boost and then manage the rush of power. the LS engine is very linear and has the low end torque the 3.3 does not. still a 911 but with a different feel/sound to the engine.

from limited research I could get a new crate LS3 that would produce 400+ hp out of the box. and if I want to spend a little more the LS7/427 is over 500hp. I have been told getting to 400 with my 3.3 and CIS is probably the goal, and going to more HP usually requires going to EFI.

and

understand this car was not originally a 930, but a SC converted in 1989. so I am not destroying an original 930 but trying to make the car I want.

but even if they have done some work on the engine parts, I could eventually build it or sell all the parts as a 'kit'.

now to pick that pipe back up....:eek:

forgot to update the work.

while working on fitting the cage, had an epiphany. cut a piece of plywood in the shape/curve of the sunroof panel template. will screw this to a 2x2 and use to support the sunroof for welding. but still need to put in place and see if it will make it easier to get the roof flow restored.

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got all the hole drilled for the cage plates. need to have the captured nuts spot welded.

took the wood template and screwed it to the end of a 2x2. with a little tweeking I think this will do a lot to getting the panel in correctly.

had a long discussion with Steve Weiner yesterday. he has driven several LS 911s and a LS cayman. they were well built and sorted and incredible to drive. since my car is already a frankenstein modified, why not do LS.

so here I go.....

I'll be selling the complete 3.3 as a 'kit'?:eek: anyone interested?

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Why jump ship at this point? You have all the parts for the turbo, right?

You may want to read through a couple of threads where people have done this. It could add several years and $$$ to your project.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/461502-my-ls1-conversion-911-a.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-engine-conversion-tech-forum/556905-89-911-ls1-conversion-22.html

I have made my decision, and think it is a good one for ME.

actually I can imagine spending a lot of $$$ finishing the engine and the time it would take me to do that. and being my first 911 engine rebuild what is the risk of my messing up and it gernading on me.....

was talking to one of the guys in the shop across the street. he was telling me how he totally rebuilt the 454 in his truck. when they fired it up it immediately spun a rod bearing and blew it through the side of the block...:eek:

I have all the parts for the engine, dismantled it myself. and have already had a bit of work done as shown in this thread. will be posting for sale and will start going through everything to inventory, take pics, and box up.

I'll take a look at those threads for ideas and probably what not to do.

thanks again for those links. interesting builds.

talked to Steve Wiener and his estimate is about $10k for all the work and parts I would need to build the 3.3. then again the question of risk.

so I would avoid those costs and add back whatever I get for the engine. so the LS swap may cost less in the long term.

regarding time, I think this will actually reduce the time to complete.

researching the cooling issue. I do not want to take the normal Renegade approach for radiator in the front. requesting dimensions of some 934 style front valances. stick 3 radiators behind it with fans should not be too hard to fab and should cool enough. and if not add another small radiator in the back under the tail....

but today get to work on the 951, picked up the rebuild cyl head yesterday.

so much time so little to do.... stop, reverse that...

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Even though I egged you on to get the Cayenne motor... I'm a flat-6 guy. But it's your car. End of story. And the Smithsonian ain't calling anytime soon since it's not the last-in-the-world, pristine, original, never-touched turbo.

But gotta say. They're cooler with the boxer in the bag as Ferry intended.

934 valance is straight up awesome.

I understand as I had an 85 911 for 27 yrs. and my original plan was to rebuild the 3.3

but after working on this in the 'background' for over 5 yrs I really want to get it done. and all things considered I am getting energized again about this project with the LS3 now in the plan.

I almost have a modified 951 turbo motor rebuilt, looking forward to bringing the 951 out of the trailer and into the shop to get it back in. unfortunately I expect to miss the first of the DE events, they are filling up and after getting the engine back in will need to drive for a while to break it in.

just got the cyl head back from the machine shop.

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I hear ya... My own subtle project is creeping up on 6 years. With decent time to spend on it, would've been a 1 year job, max. But, crazy cool work project + life & family + job change and another really cool work project, and we're 6 years deep. Really starting to effect my mood!!!

Nice cylinder head why the way.

got the captive nuts welded to the plates for the cage. but now that I have all the parts will focus on finishing the engine rebuild for my 951 and get the car back on the road to go through engine break-in before I head to a track event.

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