930 clone restore - if you had it to do all over?
 

as I get close to finishing my 951, starting to think more serious about this project.

so .... been reading a lot of threads here, probably too many, and seen a lot of incredible builds.

IF YOU HAD IT TO DO ALL OVER, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

hoping for posts or links to other threads with ideas. I keep seeing post of what people would do different if they had the chance. hope to get ideas from those who have gone before me.



just a short intro for now, and more pics to follow soon.

I stumbled on a 78 930 clone, built on a 78 SC in the 1989 - 1990 time frame. got it almost a year ago, just could not pass it up. took some crap from my wife about it, as it made the 5th P car I had at the time. just finishing the resurrection of an 87 944S for my bro-in-law, and had not even started work on the 951 DE/street build.

pic of PO.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1421962337.jpg

I got the car not running. the muffler case split and the hot exhaust burned some wiring and stuff causing it to quit. guy I got it from said it was running great, just scary has hell to give it much gas.:eek:

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guy who had it built had a 78 3.3 rebuilt from the crank up, modified, head work, twin plug, etc. have a lot of pics and records. not totally sure what all was done, need to sift through the records more closely. he also had the 915 tranny rebuilt, including a taller 5th gear. again, need to dig into the records to see what was done. saw the record of the clutch, dont recall what was installed but it is really heavy pedal feel. was told it dyno'ed over 400hp.

had the SC body stripped down, sand blasted, steel rear flares and the slope nose fenders added, then full paint. hard to guess what the guy spent building. I suspect for equal or less $$ could have bought a factory 930 at the time. but also guess not what he wanted.

unfortunately, has some significant paint cracking around the rear flares where welded and in a few other spots. so will probably repaint, but not sure I like the current color. may change color, and if I do want to research the factory colors for 78 before I dedide.

another question in my mind is trying to have someone rebuild repair the damage to the extened whale tale. cut out the damage and replace with a screen, or get another tail. (I have the rubber edge, in good shape)

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the guy left it on stock SC suspension and brakes. already decided I want to go full 930 brakes. don't think I want to go floating hubs / rotors, but may as that was factory for 78-79. just starting to consider what to do upgrading the suspension.


when I got it, partially dropped the engine, cleaned up and repainted the engine tins, misc stuff, and fixing the wiring. then stopped and decided it was going to get a 'full monty'. always lusted for a 930, I have a pic of one on my office wall to my left. as the values of 930s are going way out of my budget, never thought I'd ever have one. so want to do a total and thorough job of it.

so returned to finish the 951 project first.

until the next installment, start giving me ideas to pursue.SmileWavy

Looks like a nice project. I have a factory turbo tail base that I am selling for $275 plus shipping if interested. I just sold the rubber to another Pelican.

Not sure if you are interested but thought I would mention it.

The tail you have looks like a DP type extended tail. Somebody can probably fix it for you but not sure how much they would charge.

I am planning on fixing that whaletail. if I cannot find someone with the fiberglass-craft that can make a mold to make replacement sections, may cut it out and fab a wire mess screen. I considered buying a used tail and cut out this section and graft, but it seems the form / size of this section on this tail is different than a stock tail. but whatever I do it will need to look GOOD.

stumbled across a nice set of 78-79 long fin calipers, could not pass up.

now off to the shop to continue installing the new clutch in the 951.


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I'll have to look at my calipers. They seem to be the same on my 82 930.

thanks, have not researched the part #. just went by what the guy from whom I got them saying they came off a 79 with floating hubs/rotors.

my clone is built on a 78 SC. I picked these up due to discussion with Steve Weiner at Rennsport systems. he has made adapter kits for 930 calipers to fit to SC.

finally getting restarted on this project.

so I will repeat the title of this thread.

if you had it to do all over again?

over the past year I have been reading lots of threads on this forum. now I may have too many ideas and not enough $$$.

when I got the car I initially thought I'd repair the wiring and get it running. but then notice things like old fuel lines, etc., and came to the decision I was going to do a full refresh.

and if I am, will tear down the engine and tranny and rebuild anything needed. just dont want to put a lot of time and $$ into it only to find issues with the engine/tranny.

so I will have some time to finalize the reassembly plans and what I will do. one major consideration is the ignition. has twin plug but old electromotive ign, so plan to upgrade to something more modern. so far I am planning to retain the CIS. if I end up with 400+ hp I will be happy.

a couple of pics of the current state. been looking forward to this project for over a year. but my 951 DE build and some maintenance on my other Porsches kept getting in the way.

I look forward to idea, suggestions, warning, and advice from this distinguished crowd that will help ensure I end up with a great 930.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436024658.jpg


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and some inspiration hanging on the wall in front of it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1436024772.jpg

Bob, welcome to the forum. You've got a project on your hands for sure, but based on your signature list and previous projects, you sound like you're up to it.

I'd suggest that rather than tear into engine in exploratory mode that you warm it up and perform a leak down test on it to get a sense of overall top-end health. Then pull it and store it out of the way. You can enjoy an otherwise safe and very well restored car with a slightly smoky, slightly leaky engine/trans. Drivetrain work can be done at any time, when the budget funds have recovered from the paint/body stuff. (Except for the blue and yellow bits in the engine compartment. They have to go asap as they are horrendous)

Looking forward to another build thread here instead of another wanker value thread. Stay on it and keep us posted!

gsxrken,
thanks for the encouragement.

initially I had started to just sort out and repair the burned wiring. but then encountered cracked fuel lines, and when checking both fuel pumps were not correct.

and yes, the blue/yellow and red you cannot see will disappear. on my other cars I have done some limited and think tasteful engine part painting. but this is pretty hideous. once I blast off the ugly, plan to just keep this engine unpainted. let the clean alum show.

at first I was not sure, but have decided to build this for DE/track and street since it is a clone. so no worries about 'value'. value to me is the fun of DRIVING THE WHEELS OFF OF IT. so no scrimping on the mechanicals. also heavily leaning toward doing a G50 conversion. since this only saw street driving, the 915 has survived so far. but wont for long on the track.

the one compromise in my total plan is to rebuild the engine and upgrade the tranny, and do the body/paint work. and get it running.

then will attack a full suspension upgrade as phase II.

yea, the more I think and plan, the more $$$$ it will cost. but then, I hope to fully build this bad boy for less than the cost of a new cayman.

so need to get more serious about selling my 928S and motorcycle. then as this comes together, I can sell the 951.

or maybe I won the lottery yesterday, need to check.

started working on dropping the engine/tranny last weekend, but now also need to replace the lower ball joints and bushings on the 951 before the next DE.

so I should start having something interesting to post soon.

here is something to consider.
when i was looking for a 930 i looked at an AWESOME twin turbo 77 911s. but that was all it was ever going to be. a 77s with a twin turbo. the option i was considering was rebuilding my 77 with a nice 3.0. i dont know how much you plan to put into the car but you might want to consider what you could get if you sold what you have and added that to the money you plan to put into this car. who knows, you find a nice 930 now, drive it for 5 yrs and sell it for more than you paid for it.

your car is an interesting looking project. if you plan on keeping it another option is to sell the engine and find a really nice 3.6. lighten up the car and you will have a really fun car to drive.

do a compression test on it and see what you have.

thanks for the thoughts.

but part of my love of these cars is wrenching. 4 projects now on the road and this will be my 5th.

what I hope to end up with is a fully refreshed beast of a 930 that can handle DE/track time and accommodate occasional street driving.

I am bracing my self for a budget of $50k to build this car to what I want.

my suspicion in today's 930 market is any 930 I could afford to buy would need a lot of work to bring to the level I plan for this.

until I get this built, I have my 86 944 turbo for the track and just drove my 85 911 targa yesterday. may need to get the 928 back out due to the heat here, as it has cold AC.

Build what you want and drive the wheels off of it.

People might not like the fact that I "cut up" a rare car. But I enjoyed the journey and enjoy driving it even more.

Stick with it brother!!

Bob, your car kinda makes me chuckle when I see it.. cause its very similar in looks to my 930
as in, Petrol Blue Slant nose w/DP extended tail! :eek:

Merlin,
you are one of my inspirations on this forum. in my case, not a rare, factory 930. as said, value to me is the driving experience.

I had hoped to come for the turbopalooza, but too much conflict in my schedule. hope you'all had a great weekend. need to catch up on that thread.

I am still struggling back and forth over what tranny to use. I have accepted the existing 915 wont survive long for what I plan ... Bwuahahahahahah.

I am leaning toward a G50, but need to check and see if I can find a local shop that can properly replace the torsion tube.

onboost. glad you got a chuckle. I really hope I can find a good FG guy who can repair the heat damage to my tail.

so finally getting serious. hope to have frequent posts as I tear into this project.


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finally decided on a 930 4sp. just got one, sending to Steve Weiner at Rennsport systems to go through, rebuild as necessary, regear, and add LSD.:D

before I seriously dig into this project, decided to clean out the shop and build a big shelf to put tires,etc on and get stuff off the floor and out of my way. 10' across so I can get around it when working on the car.

about to go back up on jack stands.

now if I can just get that dang tranny off the motor so I can get it on the engine stand.:eek:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1447513122.jpg

nice - good idea

great to see your progress on tearing into this finally, as well as to the 930box score

looking forward to yer updates

yea, the problem is I have 5, including this one, under my care. all 4 others running but always needing some maintenance. and two TB/WP projects this winter on the 944S and the 928. and some minor maintenance on the 951 and 911.

need to clean the dust off the poor thing from cleaning the shop. I had it rolled outside and we blew the dust out the door and most seems to have settled on it.:eek:

more progress. back up on jack stands. pulled the engine bay wiring harness loose and decided to pull the whole thing and replace. too many of the connectors are a bit crispy from the hot exhaust damage.

also got the rear fuel lines all pulled, ready to replace by the new ones made by Len Cummings.

almost got the gas tank out, then drop the steering rack to pull the new tunnel fuel lines and install the new front fuel lines also built by Len.

coming to the conclusion my tranny is stuck in the pilot bearing. so just keep jerking away, there were three of us trying the last time. (now I cant imagine what Ronnie would say to THAT).

so until I get the engine on the stand, keep tearing stuff off the car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1448546926.jpg

Did you release the throwout bearing? Gotta do that before it will come off.

good progress, Bob - keep up the good werk!

and

Ronknees knows alllllllllll toooooooooo wellllllllllll about 3wayjerks!!! :eek: SmileWavy

So yer saying that both Paul and Norm were there helping and still no joy?!?!?! I woulda' thunk that their 2X Popeye arms would have pulled the gearbox inside out, much less unstuck the "tranny"!!! :eek:

Paul/Ronnie,
you two did not disappoint me. :eek:

cannot get the tranny back enough for that. so far maybe 1/4 of an inch space between block and bell housing.

opinion of a couple experienced Porsche wrenches is it is stuck in the pilot bearing.

so gotta just keep jecking until it comes ..... loose.

(Ronnie, that was another for you.)

yesterday got the hood off an the gas tank pulled. today, drop the steering rack and pull the new fuel lines through the tunnel and work at pulling the engine bay wiring harness out.

and probably some more jerking and dismantling.

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Not sure if this is the type of ideas that you had in mind but, after a number of projects, this was how I did the last one:

PAGE 27 - Project Lessons learned

Gearbox removal
 

Gearbox should move easily- jacking will break something. Did you remove the clutch release arm from the bottom of the bell housing? (Remove circlip, slide arm off splined shaft) Otherwise clutch throwout bearing release fork won't disengage

Luislang,
removing the release fork shaft on the bell housing is how I've done this on 944s.

but from my 911 mentor, Steve Weiner at Rennsport systems and a local P car mechanic, tell me it is probably stuck on the pilot bearing.

once I get the tranny to move back a few inches, then should be able to get my fingers in and release the clutch fork.

so per these experts, just keep pulling on the tranny like a slide hammer until it comes loose.

yesterday continued some teardown. got the front suspension and steering rack dropped to get good access to the fuel lines. now ready to pull the new ones through.

also pulled the front bumper and lower valance and the front oil cooler.

I pulled the headlights to see what I have. the wires to them were cut off or disconnected. based on the docs I got with the car, it appears this slant conversion came from Golden (Ill) Custom Coachworks. found a link via Google, but apparently they are no longer in business. link has lots of pics and info, and says these motors came from RX-7, so hoping I can find info on how to get them working.



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Wayner,
thanks for the link. but what I am mainly interested in are issues specific to a 930.

off to the shop.

going through all the docs I got with this car from its build, here are a few of the engine rebuild by the PO in 1990.


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yesterday was more tear down.

definitely past the point of no return.

will do the updates/upgrades on the front suspension before I put it back together.

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got the tranny off. ignorance issue.:(

well after all the huffing and puffing, what I learned is you need to remove the clutch fork spring.

WSM does not tell you this, or at least I could not find it. WSM just said 'once you have the tranny off .... '.

what I suspect is I had asked a P car mechanic about pulling the tranny and asked if I needed to pull the pivot shaft for the clutch fork as I did on the 951.

turns out he thought I had removed the spring, which I had not. so another Pcar guy told me about that and the tranny fell off in my lap. :D

selling the tranny to a friend who found cracks in his bell housing. so between his tranny and mine hoping to cobble together a good one.

as I am replacing with a 930 4sp, will be putting up the Sachs RSR pressure plate for sale, along with any stuff I wont use.

so next up is get the engine up on the stand, and just keep dismantling.

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before I do further tear down on the motor, will finish verifying fitment of my new fuel lines so Len can finish them up for me.

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Bob,

I can probably help you with the RX-7 retractable headlight mechanism wiring. I have the same setup from Golden Coachworks, which I installed back in 1990. I also modified the linkage mechanism to eliminate headlight shake. I have the round headlights but also have a set of rectangular ones for backup.

Dennis,
excellent. I had not done much research on them yet. will reach out when I get to them.

the destruction continues.

tore down both doors incl removing PW mech. considering doing this using RS America door panels, but still debating.

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and pulled the intake off.

next up, pull the exhaust then leak down and inspection. hoping for good enough numbers to not have to do full rebuild. but will do what is needed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1451226663.jpg

well...... could hear air leaks on all cyl, so it will be a full rebuild.

anyone recognise who made these headers? cannot find any markings. not sure if this is a re-weld or original but no cracks I could see.

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1451398870.jpg

Look a lot like my powerhaus headers:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1451399713.jpg

Steve,
thanks for this info.

agreed look alot like my Powerhaus headers, however mine have their tag welded onto one of the exhangers

I believe GHL look similar?

[QUOTE=911tracker85;8935342]well...... could hear air leaks on all cyl, so it will be a full rebuild.

anyone recognise who made these headers? cannot find any markings. not sure if this is a re-weld or original but no cracks I could see.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1451398853.jpg



Sorry guys, those are early McNeil headers.. built by Kenny McNeil. He also did the original design/set-up & fabrication for both B&B and Powerhaus.
They do look similar to GHL who copied the design.. but are different where the collectors merge.

plan to get a set of Brian's headers at some point. but facing a full rebuild and the rest of the body work/paint and the suspension/brakes, new headers will have to wait.:(

Hello everyone! I have a 1980 911 convertible purchased it like this with fiberglass body on it with a 930 turbo engine on it does anyone know the center points of measurements for the body on these Porsches?
My plan is to turn it into a coupe and bring it back to a collectible Porsche