wasted spark COP with EDIS6 module

[flightlead404]

I'm still trying to understand why you need two EDIS 6 modules for COP.

Can someone explain it to a dummy like me?

[Damon in STL]

I was running the early 2000's Dodge Caravan coil and using the QuadSpark Four Channel Ignition Module from DIYautotune on my na 3.0 with MS2 (I decided to get away from edis just because it took up some space).

My next step is to use LS coils with a short wire and maybe move to the next level of MS with built in ignition control. I bought eight new coils with wiring and mounting bracket fairly cheaply. The bracket looks like it can work with a little fabrication and cutting the last coil off each side.

I also have edis-4 running with MS2 on my 1.8 ltr turbo BMW Race Car. This is where I cut my teeth on MS and EDIS.

[scottrx7tt]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I'm still trying to understand why you need two EDIS 6 modules for COP.

Can someone explain it to a dummy like me?

The EDIS does not have enough energy to fire 2 coils at once. The coil packs they use are normally only running 3 coils. People have tried to run them in series, instead of parallel with 1 module,but they still encounter misfires at higher RPMs.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by scottrx7tt

The EDIS does not have enough energy to fire 2 coils at once. The coil packs they use are normally only running 3 coils. People have tried to run them in series, instead of parallel with 1 module,but they still encounter misfires at higher RPMs.

Even with 3/4 wire COPs with the igniter on the coil? (These are the so-called "smart" COPs right?)

In a forced induction engine I suppose we need even more spark energy at high MAP too.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Damon in STL

I was running the early 2000's Dodge Caravan coil and using the QuadSpark Four Channel Ignition Module from DIYautotune on my na 3.0 with MS2 (I decided to get away from edis just because it took up some space).

My next step is to use LS coils with a short wire and maybe move to the next level of MS with built in ignition control. I bought eight new coils with wiring and mounting bracket fairly cheaply. The bracket looks like it can work with a little fabrication and cutting the last coil off each side.

I also have edis-4 running with MS2 on my 1.8 ltr turbo BMW Race Car. This is where I cut my teeth on MS and EDIS.

I want to use COP if I can simply for space and mounting considerations. I can mount two EDIS6 modules where the current CDI box is and have a nice clean installation. If I go CNP I'm not sure where/how I'd mount the coils.

[scottrx7tt]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Even with 3/4 wire COPs with the igniter on the coil? (These are the so-called "smart" COPs right?)

In a forced induction engine I suppose we need even more spark energy at high MAP too.

I don't believe edis will control the "smart" coils. Even if you used the quad spark, you would have to use 2 of them. Edis is probably the most crude way to run a distributor less ignition, in fact, megasquirt sees edis as an electronic distributor, but it works, and it is reliable. Keep in mind, I am using a microsquirt v3.

[flightlead404]

I'll have to do a bit more reading. I thought the diff with the smart vs dumb coils is just that the input is a logic level trigger (going low I think) and they have their own power supply for charging.

If that is the case it might allow for the "two coils in series" solution to work ok.

I'll read on...

[merlinfe]

Scott,

I’m replicating this on my SC and wanted to confirm you are running Coil A on controller 1 to cylinder 1 and Coil A on controller 2 to cylinder 4. So wiring would look like:

Controller 1 Coil A Cyl 1
Controller 2 Coil A Cyl 4
Controller 1 Coil B Cyl 6
Controller 2 Coil B Cyl 3
Controller 1 Coil C Cyl 2
Controller 2 Coil C Cyl 5

Just let me know if this looks right or if I’ve buggered it all up. Thanks!

-Steve

[scottrx7tt]

Steve, just saw this, don’t get on here much, yes that is the way I did it. I used 1 EDIS module per bank basically. Let me know if you had success. The guy I sold my car. To has had some random misfires on this set up especially when it’s hot outside,but I believe that the motorcycle coils I used just can’t hold up to the heat.

Originally Posted by merlinfe

Scott,

I’m replicating this on my SC and wanted to confirm you are running Coil A on controller 1 to cylinder 1 and Coil A on controller 2 to cylinder 4. So wiring would look like:

Controller 1 Coil A Cyl 1
Controller 2 Coil A Cyl 4
Controller 1 Coil B Cyl 6
Controller 2 Coil B Cyl 3
Controller 1 Coil C Cyl 2
Controller 2 Coil C Cyl 5

Just let me know if this looks right or if I’ve buggered it all up. Thanks!

-Steve

[flightlead404]

From what I can tell, and the way I'm building mine out, EDIS is not required with Microsquirt V3 and smart coils.

[scottrx7tt]

You don’t have enough ignition drivers with microsquirt. I believe there are only 2. You need 3 for a wasted spark configuration. I believe you would still have to use the opti spark box to make it work, which is basically the same as an EDIS module. You MIGHT be able to program another output to control your third channel with some modifications. I love the microsquirt, but it has its limitations. If you are able to do it, please let me know.

Originally Posted by flightlead404

From what I can tell, and the way I'm building mine out, EDIS is not required with Microsquirt V3 and smart coils.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by scottrx7tt

You don’t have enough ignition drivers with microsquirt. I believe there are only 2. You need 3 for a wasted spark configuration. I believe you would still have to use the opti spark box to make it work, which is basically the same as an EDIS module. You MIGHT be able to program another output to control your third channel with some modifications. I love the microsquirt, but it has its limitations. If you are able to do it, please let me know.

you can repurpose WLED and ALED for Spark C and D. They do need a pullup to vref via 100 ohm resistor.

[dap930]

If you add a third ignition output to Microsquirt, then you can use logic level (5vdc) smart coils. Toyota/Denso 90919-02234 coils work well with MS3/MS3X or MS3Pro because the input impedance of the coil logic circuit is high enough to not draw too much current from the ECU chip, but probably not an issue for Microsquirt if you use a regular transistor to control the logic signal. I only mention this if you plan to upgrade to MS3/MS3x of MS3Pro in the future. If you do not get the Toyota coil connectors from a junk yard, connectors are available on-line; CONN-85727(pigtail) or CONN-75727(connector kit).

You could still use the EDIS module to control smart coils, but you would have to knock down the 12vdc signal output to the coil to 5vdc using a simple resistor voltage divider circuit or a buffer circuit.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by dap930

If you add a third ignition output to Microsquirt, then you can use logic level (5vdc) smart coils. Toyota/Denso 90919-02234 coils work well with MS3/MS3X or MS3Pro because the input impedance of the coil logic circuit is high enough to not draw too much current from the ECU chip, but probably not an issue for Microsquirt if you use a regular transistor to control the logic signal. I only mention this if you plan to upgrade to MS3/MS3x of MS3Pro in the future. If you do not get the Toyota coil connectors from a junk yard, connectors are available on-line; CONN-85727(pigtail) or CONN-75727(connector kit).

You could still use the EDIS module to control smart coils, but you would have to knock down the 12vdc signal output to the coil to 5vdc using a simple resistor voltage divider circuit or a buffer circuit.

Those are exactly the coils I got. I don't mess around with pulling used bits off at the junk yard though, I just buy new

Are you suggesting I can't control the coil directly from the MicroSquirt but need a transistor to switch the logic output?

Maybe 2n3906 since it'll be a low side load? I wouldn't need a TIP120 would I?

[shamrok]

I'm in the middle of researching Microsquirt for my 3.0 SC and pretty deep down the rabbit hole. I was going to do fuel only but looks like adding ignition is pretty straightforward. Was going to do EDIS but I love simplicity and the more I read, it seems like just running 'smart' Denso coils in a wasted spark arrangement would be pretty simple. I'm thinking wired up into pairs (1&4 IGN1, 3&6 IGN2, 2&5 WLED w/resistor?) would work.

Am I missing something, why run EDIS modules at all if you're already going to run COP?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by shamrok

I'm in the middle of researching Microsquirt for my 3.0 SC and pretty deep down the rabbit hole. I was going to do fuel only but looks like adding ignition is pretty straightforward. Was going to do EDIS but I love simplicity and the more I read, it seems like just running 'smart' Denso coils in a wasted spark arrangement would be pretty simple. I'm thinking wired up into pairs (1&4 IGN1, 3&6 IGN2, 2&5 WLED w/resistor?) would work.

Am I missing something, why run EDIS modules at all if you're already going to run COP?

That is my plan, no EDIS. However you'll need to add a crank position sensor. Turbocraft has one that will need your flywheel machined for 60-2 and a chunk of metal taken out of the transmission housing (easier than it sounds). If you aren't taking the trans out there are a couple of options.

The easiest is to add a toothed wheel to the pulley wheel at the front. Short of that I think you can modify the distributor to remove any centrifugal advance and removing any vacuum advance/retard then using the reluctor as a pick up should also work (remember it turns at half crank speed).