Titanium Hardware

DSPTurtle · 11-17-2018, 07:36 AM

Hi Guys,
Does anyone have a good source for reasonably priced Titanium fasteners? I'm mainly looking for the M6 bolts for all the engine tins. That's just wasted weight...LOL M6 1.0x10mm.

chrismorse · chrismorse's Garage

These guys have an enormous selection of fasteners, materials and tools, ship quickly and are nicely priced.
Give them a shot.
Chris

DSPTurtle · 11-17-2018, 10:20 AM

Thanks man. We have an account with them but they are not very competitively priced...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrismorse

These guys have an enormous selection of fasteners, materials and tools, ship quickly and are nicely priced.
Give them a shot.
Chris

Walt Fricke · 11-17-2018, 03:37 PM

Have you calculated the weight savings? Care to share?

Me, I once figured I should saw off the end of every bolt or stud which extended beyond its nut. So far, it is just a thought.

dap930 · dap930's Garage

Amorbolt.com has a M6 x 10mm for $3.25ea. The description does not specify the thread pitch, but it is probably 1.0.

DSPTurtle · 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Have you calculated the weight savings? Care to share?

Me, I once figured I should saw off the end of every bolt or stud which extended beyond its nut. So far, it is just a thought.

I hadn't gotten that far yet since my first google results yielded the bolts being about $5 each. I estimate them at about 5 grams each not including the washer. Ti is about half the weight. I have not found any Ti washers as of yet. I think there a roughly 36 M6x10mm fasteners by the time you do all of the engine tins. So overall, it's probably about 100 grams. Since I have gone with an amber f/g tin kit for this R&D motor, I thought it would be a nice touch... at $1 per bolt. Certainly not worth $150! Although I have dropped $150 on less practical items

I'd be much better served tossing a pair of Mg chain boxes on there and call it "lightweight"

The Pauter rods already eclipse that weight savings...

Walt Fricke · 11-19-2018, 02:27 PM

Are alu washers lighter than the steel washers Porsche uses for the shroud fasteners? They should work fine on the shroud. Or could Ti washers end up being even lighter?

All three of my sand cast case 2.7/2.8s have the mag chain housings and covers (or are the covers from the tensioner kits aluminum?). And a mag case vent cover.

Turns out the early two bolt alternator/fan housing strap weighs the same stock as the later one bolt strap full of holes, so I now use the early one with holes. It never ends.

DSPTurtle · 11-20-2018, 06:27 AM

Ti is heavier than Al. But Ti has the same strength as steel. However, now you've got me thinking that cheap aluminum bolts should be perfectly sufficient for holding all of the cooling tins to the motor. Hmm... back to the drawing board on the weight savings since Al is about 50% of the weight of steel.

Ken911 · 11-20-2018, 09:29 AM

You know if you just start hitting the gym you'll lose more weight than any you might save with titanium bolts!!!!

Tippy · 11-20-2018, 11:02 AM

I’d worry the aluminum bolts will break with vibration

DSPTurtle · 11-20-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tippy

I’d worry the aluminum bolts will break with vibration

I don’t think you’d be that worried. There are at least three fasteners for each critical joint. So it would be hard to miss if they started to fail.

DSPTurtle · 11-20-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken911

You know if you just start hitting the gym you'll lose more weight than any you might save with titanium bolts!!!!

That’s an enormous understatement. But that Ti is so very sexy.

Ken911 · 11-20-2018, 05:55 PM

Lol

gtc · gtc's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSPTurtle

...Ti has the same strength as steel.

Not true, but whatevs.

Try ebay or aliexpress. There are lots of options out there marketed to bicyclists.

Here's one example:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Titanium-screws-M6X10-DIN-84/1698845471.html

Walt Fricke · 11-21-2018, 10:49 PM

Aluminum has to be plenty strong for this application. Plastic would be lighter yet, and probably strong enough. There are more of these fastener than you really need for the shroud.

The surrounding tin - if you are going to keep it - is another story - lots of moving around there. But I bet you have replaced that with something lighter. On my GT car I made it out of aluminum. The front (of the car) part sheet metal is screwed on normally more or less. The rear part is held to the rear of the case in more or less the usual way. On each side there is an aluminum strip bolted to the case, and the rest out to the side rails is Dzused to the fixed part. All this was done to speed up the R&R, but some weight was saved. The regular short 6mm bolts holding the rear piece on have tended not to stay in place, but the whole rear piece stays put anyway because it is held by the Dzuses on each side.

Spenny_b · Spenny_b's Garage

Drill out the centre of each steel bolt, ie., hollow-out the threaded portion...then re-plate them. Far cheaper (Ok, not as sexy as Ti, but...)

You need to read "proffighter" build thread (Another Rust Combat ) for this sort if silliness, lol! If you stand still for long enough, he'll drill your feet for "lightness", haha.

proffighter · proffighter's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Drill out the centre of each steel bolt, ie., hollow-out the threaded portion...then re-plate them. Far cheaper (Ok, not as sexy as Ti, but...)

You need to read "proffighter" build thread (Another Rust Combat ) for this sort if silliness, lol! If you stand still for long enough, he'll drill your feet for "lightness", haha.

Hell Yeah

TZ 197 · 11-22-2018, 09:18 AM

Toronto cycles dot com website has pretty good pricing on nice metric hardware mostly 6al/4v although you could use a lesser grade for the shrouds. They also stock ti washers if you really gotta feel it.

If you catch it right short 6mm bolts can be had on ebay for $1 ea in bulk. I have used these budget ti bolts for years on race motorcycles with zero issues.

Spenny_b · Spenny_b's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by proffighter

Hell Yeah

Hahaha! Hey you mad Swissman!! You doing well I hope?

Long time since a build thread update?

S

911pcars · 11-26-2018, 12:14 AM

A reduction in vehicle weight should be measured in ounces, not grams.

1 oz = 28.3 grams

Replacing steel fasteners with Ti versions is for those with burgeoning DIY budgets and or bragging rights, and best suited for cycle weenies where weight savings can make a difference. Spend your money elsewhere for more effect.

FAQLoad - Bolt Tuning - replacing heavy steel bolts with titanium, aluminum and carbon fiber

Sherwood