Which head studs for a 964 rebuild?

[Axel84]

993? supertec?

what say you

[Classic 911]

993 turbo studs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flat6pac]

Supertec, love the fine threads and no need to measure depth or pay the Porsche tax
Bruce
‘

[Henry Schmidt]

Supertec is a good choice for those interested in improved design features.
Quality corrosion resistant aged 17-4PH steel
Precision ground, heat treated, rolled threads
Fine thread for more precise torque and force retention
Highest quality (12.9), 12 point serrated flange nut
Ground and hardened washers
Additional threads at case end for more engagement [important for non-inserted mag cases]
Longer over all length for custom rod length applications
Ease of engine assembly
No need for height adjustment
Piston can be installed without the stud interference.
Price includes studs, nuts and washers.

[Jeff Alton]

What sort of build are you doing? What is the Intended use of the motor? Figure this out first.

If you are choosing to replace the OE ones, Supertech will be around the same cost as stock or 993 and be an upgrade..... Especially if you factor in new nuts....

Cheers

[Turbo_pro]

A quick heads up to those looking to up-grade their head studs.
Their are those who swear by the Dilivar studs [mostly because it's what Porsche sells] but you should be aware that there are imitation all-thread studs on the market. If you really buy into the claims made by Dilivar proponents, keep in mind that the imitation studs may not perform as expected.

That said, I have Supertec studs in 3 of my Porsche builds.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Turbo_pro

Their are those who swear by the Dilivar studs [mostly because it's what Porsche sells]...

This is not true. The people that swear by the Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs use them because they actually work the best for them and their builds. Just about all of the top high output race engine builders use the 993 Twin Turbo head studs. They don't use them because it is what Porsche sells. If that were the case they would be suing Porsche rods and pistons....

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by winders

This is not true. The people that swear by the Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs use them because they actually work the best for them and their builds. Just about all of the top high output race engine builders use the 993 Twin Turbo head studs. They don't use them because it is what Porsche sells. If that were the case they would be suing Porsche rods and pistons....

Can you list any of the top output engine builders who have tried Supertec studs and rejected them? My understanding in talking to the parts guys at Supertec is that demand out strips supply.
tick...toc...tick...toc.
People building expensive engines in every category are reluctant to try new things. 993 head studs are good enough for some maybe even most. Innovation doesn't guaranty acceptance.

[winders]

I am not arguing against anything here. I am calling you out for a comment that is incorrect. I have no idea which top high output engine builders have tried Supertec studs.

All I know is when I asked around I found out these engine builders used the 993 Turbo head studs. When I asked why the answer was they are the only ones that have worked for them. In others words they swear by them because they work not because Porsche sells them.

Feel free to use and recommend any product you want. I don't care what people use in their engines. All I know is my engines get Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs because William Knight recommended them and the guys out there that build the best high performance larger bore engines use them.

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by winders

I am not arguing against anything here. I am calling you out for a comment that is incorrect. I have no idea which top high output engine builders have tried Supertec studs.

All I know is when I asked around I found out these engine builders used the 993 Turbo head studs. When I asked why the answer was they are the only ones that have worked for them. In others words they swear by them because they work not because Porsche sells them.

Feel free to use and recommend any product you want. I don't care what people use in their engines. All I know is my engines get Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs because William Knight recommended them and the guys out there that build the best high performance larger bore engines use them.

"Calling you out". What a child, is everything a competition with you?
I've had the same kinds of conversations with top flight engine builders for 40 years and the answer is generally the same. They change based on proven innovation or manufacturers incentives. Basically, if it ain't broken don't fix it. That's why there are stupid race car engine mods still in use long past the sell by date.

[winders]

Dude, I was "calling you out" (i.e. challenging what you said) in the sense that I was responding to the comment you made saying that builders use 993 Turbo head studs because it is what Porsche sells. Challenging a falsehood is not "childish".

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by winders

Dude, I was "calling you out" (i.e. challenging what you said) in the sense that I was responding to the comment you made saying that builders use 993 Turbo head studs because it is what Porsche sells. Challenging a falsehood is not "childish".

The childish part is the naiveté exhibited by your hero adoration. You ascribe quality based on a nebulous feeling you have about who uses a product with zero understanding of why they use that product.
Maybe you can get William Knight or any of these other great builders to come on this thread and actually explain the thought process he used to select Dilivar head studs.

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by Turbo_pro

A quick heads up to those looking to up-grade their head studs.
Their are those who swear by the Dilivar studs [mostly because it's what Porsche sells] but you should be aware that there are imitation all-thread studs on the market. If you really buy into the claims made by Dilivar proponents, keep in mind that the imitation studs may not perform as expected.

Originally Posted by winders

This is not true. The people that swear by the Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs use them because they actually work the best for them and their builds. Just about all of the top high output race engine builders use the 993 Twin Turbo head studs. They don't use them because it is what Porsche sells. If that were the case they would be suing Porsche rods and pistons....

Dude
The real purpose of my post was to warn prospective buyers that there are bogus "Dilivar" studs being sold and they might not perform as advertised.
You picked a random comment, an opinion to negate the entire purpose of the post.
Your head stud feud is well documented but does it bring anything of value to this or any other thread?

[Zuffenwerker]

Dilivar studs are non ferrous so it’s pretty easy to tell a fake

[stanglife]

Since this is seems like a general opinion thread - anyone use or have any objections to the ARP ones? I already have this set on the shelf - any reason to use something else?

https://arpstore.com/products/cylinder-head-stud-kit-for-porsche-2-0l-3-8l-air-cooled-engines-911-930-turbo-premium-austenit

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by stanglife

Since this is seems like a general opinion thread - anyone use or have any objections to the ARP ones? I already have this set on the shelf - any reason to use something else?

https://arpstore.com/products/cylinder-head-stud-kit-for-porsche-2-0l-3-8l-air-cooled-engines-911-930-turbo-premium-austenit

Have used them many times will great success. Have them in a current 993RS build (actual RS).

That said, we are going to start using Henry's studs and give them a try.

Cheers

[safe]

For a stock rebuild 964 (most 964 cars won't be driven in anger anymore) cheap steel studs would probably be fine, its what Porsche used. Anything better than that adds insurance. Depends on the use of the engine.

[porschedude996]

So i’m gathering that I could use new dilivars on a stock 3.0L and be good for years/corrosion. My 1983 studs lasted thus far and i’m changing because of age. Some corrosion was observed when the engine was recently torn down.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by porschedude996

So i’m gathering that I could use new dilivars on a stock 3.0L and be good for years/corrosion. My 1983 studs lasted thus far and i’m changing because of age. Some corrosion was observed when the engine was recently torn down.

Porsche made the mistake of using two different materials in heads studs on both the 911SC and 3.2 Carrera. Steel on the top and Dilivar on the bottom.
If you are replacing your studs, I recommend using 24 studs of whichever variety you choose. If you don't want to avail yourself of a more advanced stud, I recommend the Canyon stud. Standard configuration with a higher quality material. Great corrosion resistance, precision ground, heat treated and rolled threads. I consulted on the material selection.
I believe they are available from our host. Part#: 10-0115-101-M105

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by safe

For a stock rebuild 964 (most 964 cars won't be driven in anger anymore) cheap steel studs would probably be fine, its what Porsche used. Anything better than that adds insurance. Depends on the use of the engine.

The 964 was never fitting with " plain steel" studs from the factory. In the late seventies Porsche committed to the Dilivar stud to deal with warranty issues [seeping on cool down]. They struggled with design after design and finally settled on the all-thread monstrosity. It was never designed for as a performance enhancement.