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Which head studs for a 964 rebuild?
993? supertec?
what say you |
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 408
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993 turbo studs
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nash County, NC.
Posts: 8,467
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Supertec, love the fine threads and no need to measure depth or pay the Porsche tax
Bruce ‘ |
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Try not, Do or Do not
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Supertec is a good choice for those interested in improved design features.
Quality corrosion resistant aged 17-4PH steel Precision ground, heat treated, rolled threads Fine thread for more precise torque and force retention Highest quality (12.9), 12 point serrated flange nut Ground and hardened washers Additional threads at case end for more engagement [important for non-inserted mag cases] Longer over all length for custom rod length applications Ease of engine assembly No need for height adjustment Piston can be installed without the stud interference. Price includes studs, nuts and washers.
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Henry Schmidt SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE Ph: 760-728-3062 Email: supertec1@earthlink.net Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 09-10-2023 at 01:51 PM.. |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Langley,B.C.
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What sort of build are you doing? What is the Intended use of the motor? Figure this out first.
If you are choosing to replace the OE ones, Supertech will be around the same cost as stock or 993 and be an upgrade..... Especially if you factor in new nuts.... Cheers
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Turn3 Autosport- Full Service and Race Prep www.turn3autosport.com 997 S 4.0, Cayman S 3.8, Cayenne Turbo, Macan Turbo, 69 911, Mini R53 JCW , RADICAL SR3 |
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Constitutional Liberal
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seasonal locations
Posts: 14,372
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A quick heads up to those looking to up-grade their head studs.
Their are those who swear by the Dilivar studs [mostly because it's what Porsche sells] but you should be aware that there are imitation all-thread studs on the market. If you really buy into the claims made by Dilivar proponents, keep in mind that the imitation studs may not perform as expected. That said, I have Supertec studs in 3 of my Porsche builds.
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Jim “Rhetoric is no substitute for reality.” ― Thomas Sowell |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 5,885
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This is not true. The people that swear by the Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs use them because they actually work the best for them and their builds. Just about all of the top high output race engine builders use the 993 Twin Turbo head studs. They don't use them because it is what Porsche sells. If that were the case they would be suing Porsche rods and pistons....
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Scott Winders PCA GT3 #3 2021 & 2022 PCA GT3 National Champion 2021 & 2022 PCA West Coast Series GT3 Champion |
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Constitutional Liberal
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seasonal locations
Posts: 14,372
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Quote:
tick...toc...tick...toc. People building expensive engines in every category are reluctant to try new things. 993 head studs are good enough for some maybe even most. Innovation doesn't guaranty acceptance.
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Jim “Rhetoric is no substitute for reality.” ― Thomas Sowell |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 5,885
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I am not arguing against anything here. I am calling you out for a comment that is incorrect. I have no idea which top high output engine builders have tried Supertec studs.
All I know is when I asked around I found out these engine builders used the 993 Turbo head studs. When I asked why the answer was they are the only ones that have worked for them. In others words they swear by them because they work not because Porsche sells them. Feel free to use and recommend any product you want. I don't care what people use in their engines. All I know is my engines get Porsche 993 Twin Turbo head studs because William Knight recommended them and the guys out there that build the best high performance larger bore engines use them.
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Scott Winders PCA GT3 #3 2021 & 2022 PCA GT3 National Champion 2021 & 2022 PCA West Coast Series GT3 Champion |
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Constitutional Liberal
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seasonal locations
Posts: 14,372
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Quote:
I've had the same kinds of conversations with top flight engine builders for 40 years and the answer is generally the same. They change based on proven innovation or manufacturers incentives. Basically, if it ain't broken don't fix it. That's why there are stupid race car engine mods still in use long past the sell by date.
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Jim “Rhetoric is no substitute for reality.” ― Thomas Sowell |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 5,885
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Dude, I was "calling you out" (i.e. challenging what you said) in the sense that I was responding to the comment you made saying that builders use 993 Turbo head studs because it is what Porsche sells. Challenging a falsehood is not "childish".
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Scott Winders PCA GT3 #3 2021 & 2022 PCA GT3 National Champion 2021 & 2022 PCA West Coast Series GT3 Champion |
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Constitutional Liberal
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seasonal locations
Posts: 14,372
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Quote:
Maybe you can get William Knight or any of these other great builders to come on this thread and actually explain the thought process he used to select Dilivar head studs.
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Jim “Rhetoric is no substitute for reality.” ― Thomas Sowell |
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Constitutional Liberal
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Seasonal locations
Posts: 14,372
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Quote:
Quote:
The real purpose of my post was to warn prospective buyers that there are bogus "Dilivar" studs being sold and they might not perform as advertised. You picked a random comment, an opinion to negate the entire purpose of the post. Your head stud feud is well documented but does it bring anything of value to this or any other thread?
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Jim “Rhetoric is no substitute for reality.” ― Thomas Sowell |
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 584
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Dilivar studs are non ferrous so it’s pretty easy to tell a fake
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it's not leaking....it's just marking it's territory |
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Since this is seems like a general opinion thread - anyone use or have any objections to the ARP ones? I already have this set on the shelf - any reason to use something else?
https://arpstore.com/products/cylinder-head-stud-kit-for-porsche-2-0l-3-8l-air-cooled-engines-911-930-turbo-premium-austenit |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Langley,B.C.
Posts: 11,991
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Quote:
That said, we are going to start using Henry's studs and give them a try. Cheers
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Turn3 Autosport- Full Service and Race Prep www.turn3autosport.com 997 S 4.0, Cayman S 3.8, Cayenne Turbo, Macan Turbo, 69 911, Mini R53 JCW , RADICAL SR3 |
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For a stock rebuild 964 (most 964 cars won't be driven in anger anymore) cheap steel studs would probably be fine, its what Porsche used. Anything better than that adds insurance. Depends on the use of the engine.
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So i’m gathering that I could use new dilivars on a stock 3.0L and be good for years/corrosion. My 1983 studs lasted thus far and i’m changing because of age. Some corrosion was observed when the engine was recently torn down.
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Try not, Do or Do not
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Quote:
If you are replacing your studs, I recommend using 24 studs of whichever variety you choose. If you don't want to avail yourself of a more advanced stud, I recommend the Canyon stud. Standard configuration with a higher quality material. Great corrosion resistance, precision ground, heat treated and rolled threads. I consulted on the material selection. I believe they are available from our host. Part#: 10-0115-101-M105
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Henry Schmidt SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE Ph: 760-728-3062 Email: supertec1@earthlink.net |
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Try not, Do or Do not
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The 964 was never fitting with " plain steel" studs from the factory. In the late seventies Porsche committed to the Dilivar stud to deal with warranty issues [seeping on cool down]. They struggled with design after design and finally settled on the all-thread monstrosity. It was never designed for as a performance enhancement.
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Henry Schmidt SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE Ph: 760-728-3062 Email: supertec1@earthlink.net |
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