New project @ Supertec

[Glenfield]

I’ve heard of a flat fanned, 4 valve per head, 8 cylinder motor coming together for a coachbuilder that’s Porsche adjacent. More of a Porsche evocation than a “re-imaginement” and would be evoking a mid-engined Porsche not our beloved 911. Believe 1 and 1/3rd of a case coming together but you’ll tell me if that is impossible. Certainly doesn’t seem like it would fit in a 911.

Next year marks 40 years of the 959. Can you build a better 959 motor?

[chucksmith]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Buy a Corvette
Air-cooled Porsche are about the "cool factor". I've been build these little dream cars for 40 years and every costumer has his/her priorities but dull generally isn't one of them.
Anyone can built "driveable" just like anyone can paint their living-room Navajo White.
This post is about building something special.

I just built a 3.9 engine with a standard upgrade of 993 SS cams and the engine ran great but crazy boring. John @ Dougherty Cams made us a 43X /109 and the engine came to life in it's 87 back dated RS. Incredibly flat torque curve and steady horse power all the way to seven grand. The cams would generally be considered too aggressive and the end result is WOW!.
Super Sport cams are "driveable" and 43X is WOW!

so fuel injected Porsches are not cool? Ive seen plenty that would dispute that.

[Old H2S]

How about an Eaton 1.13L Roots blower.. If you did a low boost engine you could forget the intercooler or a 1bar engine and make 350 PFT at 1000 RPM. Now you might need Corvette half shafts.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by chucksmith

so fuel injected Porsches are not cool? Ive seen plenty that would dispute that.

What are you on about? I never said Fuel injection isn't cool. In fact I may have built some of the coolest FI porsches on the road today.
What I said was driveability over "cool factor" is counter-intuitive.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

Henry,

Great idea. There needs to be more of this too. The more the better.

However, it's pretty hard to build something with off the shelf parts that has not been done already.
If you are to build an engine, small displacement and work on increasing the HP/L. The smaller engines have a lot of room for improvement.

My "finger in the air" told me more new parts for these old engines was wanted. The cost although important, a higher cost was accepted today more than yesterday.

More new parts that everyone can buy is my advice. You already have something, the camshaft you mentioned. Build upon that and come up with more new parts.

Do you have any idea how condescending that sounds?
"Buy new parts" Oh, OK
I don't need your advise about how to build air-cooled Porsche engines.
This thread was about "what built formula" would be cool so I could build it on the forum and auction it when it's complete.

[Neil Harvey]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Do you have any idea how condescending that sounds?
"Buy new parts" Oh, OK
I don't need your advise about how to build air-cooled Porsche engines.
This thread was about "what built formula" would be cool so I could build it on the forum and auction it when it's complete.

You took this completely the wrong way. I was supporting your endeavor. Never gave any advice on building an engine either. Nor did I suggest you buy new parts. Rather I was suggesting creating more new parts. Not sure what you read or how.

You asked for suggestions and I gave mine without any sort of wrong intention. Merely suggested that maybe consider looking at creating new parts for customers. Even said you had a new Camshaft that was successful, so build on that and offer more.

However you read my post I cannot control that. Good luck with what you are going to do. I wish you the best,

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

You took this completely the wrong way. I was supporting your endeavor. Never gave any advice on building an engine either. Nor did I suggest you buy new parts. Rather I was suggesting creating more new parts. Not sure what you read or how.

You asked for suggestions and I gave mine without any sort of wrong intention. Merely suggested that maybe consider looking at creating new parts for customers. Even said you had a new Camshaft that was successful, so build on that and offer more.

However you read my post I cannot control that. Good luck with what you are going to do. I wish you the best,

It is certainly possible that I read your post with an undeserved attitude. I apologize.
My head is not always in the most receptive place.

I am constantly looking to design and build new parts to keep these old lawn movers running, so I appreciate the encouragement.
Cheers

[Neil Harvey]

No apology required. We all miss read things at times.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. The more of us that do this and create a better mouse trap the better for all.

Go to work.

[chucksmith]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

What are you on about? I never said Fuel injection isn't cool. In fact I may have built some of the coolest FI porsches on the road today.
What I said was driveability over "cool factor" is counter-intuitive.

I am not on about anything. A funny thing happens when you ask a forum for opinions. You get them. Why not just tell us what you want to build and move on.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by chucksmith

I am not on about anything. A funny thing happens when you ask a forum for opinions. You get them. Why not just tell us what you want to build and move on.

I spend a large amount of my time helping people on this forum because I like the interaction. What you brought was banal. I responded to the fact that most Porsche enthusiasts don't look at these cool little projects thinking "drivablity trumps wow" appeal.
I've built literally hundreds of driveable everyday tedium....This project was intended to allow people to get creative.

[Henry Schmidt]

The last open ended project we built.

964 based, 3.8, Slide Valve, Motec street motor designed to retrofit in an early chassis.

[Old H2S]

Well after 400 engine builds you have done every internal trick and combo, so that leaves the outside sub systems to customize. Fuel, air, ignition, cooling, exhaust. How about a Vortech blower mounted where the AC compressor was.

[Old H2S]

How about spinning the fan faster and bleeding some flow to make a low pressure blower.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Old H2S

Well after 400 engine builds you have done every internal trick and combo, so that leaves the outside sub systems to customize. Fuel, air, ignition, cooling, exhaust. How about a Vortech blower mounted where the AC compressor was.

Interesting idea but blower kits have been around for years and really haven't made any significant inroads in popularity.

There are still engine designs that can be explored. let's get creative with engine designs not bolt on ancillary gimmicks.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Old H2S

How about spinning the fan faster and bleeding some flow to make a low pressure blower.

As I have discussed in previous thread, spinning the fan faster does not necessarily generate additional air flow. It's a ducted fan so fan tip speeds are critical to blade cavitation. Generally, Porsche engineers increased the fan speed to compensate for low RPM running with AC. Sitting in traffic with the AC on was cooking the engines.
Those high RPM fans were generally on low RPM street motors.
Porsche even reduced the fan diameter and the crank pulley diameter on race motors to compensate for fan tip harmonics that created a cavitation.

[Dpmulvan]

6 more cylinders.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

6 more cylinders.

There might be room for 2 extra cylinders (908) but the 911 chassis is too short for a flat 12.

Once again, let's come back to earth with your suggestions.
I'm an engine builder not the tooth fairy.

[jac1976]

What seemingly started off as a genuine open discussion seems to have been a thinly veiled attempt to start fights.

[Turbo_pro]

Originally Posted by jac1976

What seemingly started off as a genuine open discussion seems to have been a thinly veiled attempt to start fights.

What would you suggest to change the decorum?

My suggestion would be to stick to the thread intent.
Make suggestions about what might make a cool engine that Henry could build while we watched.
I'll start.
I like short stroke engines: Let's shoot for 9K on 91 octane.
66mm x 100mm or more?
Titanium rods
Lightened crank
Forged rockers
Super light pistons with 21mm wrist pins
Is there a way to make 2 valve cams adjustable?
I've seen something you call Venti-port. Will that work with high rpm engines?
ITB with open stacks like Singer has used in the past.
Will your super short Supertec headers work with such a build?
Twin plug of course.
Can a 3.1 SS make 350 hp on street gas?

[Turbo_pro]

Something like this. Singer, Rothsport ?