New project @ Supertec
 

We find ourselves ready to start a new project to sell to a Porsche enthusiast.
The reason for the post is to get ideas about what we should build.
Sort of putting a finger in the air to test which way to wind is blowing.
We have every core to build any project.
We will post the build step by step and in the end, auction it off.

All ideas considered but Please no "stock" builds or M1 cams

What should we build? Post your dream build and I'll evaluate the concept.

Here's something crazy, how about a carburetor GT3 engine to fit in an early chassis?

Looks like we have one vote for a wild turbo....Thanks Mike

GT3 intake on aircooled with 935 compressor pipes + ITB?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1749578342.jpg

Flat headers on mag case with Ford VNT? Let's get crazy here!

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OK, let's get back to earth....

The carbs on GT3 motor would be very cool for early chassis Would be more interested in high butterfly MFI stacks for same motor. Would want a more clean look. Would prefer not to see power steering bracket, injector rails, heat exchanger, oil tank, oil filler, you know, the stuff you need. Mount the alternator on a fan ring with no fan?

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Make it look clean, like BBI's motor, but with a necessary water pump. Maybe come up with some custom pipes for the external coolant passages. Convert to front mounted oil tank.

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MFI becomes a huge challenge given the need to mound and drive the MFI pump.High butterfly or slides could be converted to EFI.
I was thinking a left front radiator and a right front oil cooler. Alternator is easy but I was thinking as electric water pump would greatly simplify the need to circulate water.

OOPs, now I'm doing it. Back down to earth.

Beck's, Mezger 3.6L GT3, 4 barrel engine is what got me thinking about putting carbs on a GT3. That, and the fact that I have a 4 litter 996 GT3 looking for a home.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1749612114.jpg

Does the engine have to drop into a standard air-cooled engine bay? Or can it require some mods to the rear of the engine bay?

Let's see if Tom, "OldH2S" mentions his CIS to 4-bbl conversion.

So now I'm not completely whacko..That GT3 will eat a turbo in 60 foot times and start instantly on the first flywheel cog.
I love all types of induction, yesterday I did the I-95 400, the Weber kick in at 100MPH is instant.

What ever the choice is, drivability trumps coolness any day if you use the car a lot. The wow factor gets old quickly if you have to constantly make adjustments. In my mind electronic fuel injection is the only way to go these days.

Quit trying to go big how about a 1.8 4cyl that will spin at 10,000 rpm to install in my 914

Buy a Corvette
Air-cooled Porsche are about the "cool factor". I've been build these little dream cars for 40 years and every costumer has his/her priorities but dull generally isn't one of them.
Anyone can built "driveable" just like anyone can paint their living-room Navajo White.
This post is about building something special.

I just built a 3.9 engine with a standard upgrade of 993 SS cams and the engine ran great but crazy boring. John @ Dougherty Cams made us a 43X /109 and the engine came to life in it's 87 back dated RS. Incredibly flat torque curve and steady horse power all the way to seven grand. The cams would generally be considered too aggressive and the end result is WOW!.
Super Sport cams are "driveable" and 43X is WOW!

I'm fine with a high RPM engine but generally speaking, 10K is a bridge too far. Even as a race engine, things generally get pretty frantic above 8200.
A few years back,we built a 9200, 3.1 (66 x 100) and it was pretty cool. Ty rods, Extreme heads, 12:1 super light pistons, single row chains, super light crank, simple crazy expensive. I could do that again but I was really hoping for ideas about something we haven't built before.

BTW: are you really suggesting we build a VW as a "cool" project??? Yikes!!

What are you thinking?

The only Type IV engine we've built in the last 20+ years was a recreation of the D Production engine from Wayne Baker's 1978 SCCA championship 914. 2.0 liter, Forged crank, forged rods, 1.8 heads, NOS Snyder cams, Type I lifters, NOS Cosworth 11:1 pistons, and Solex carburetors. Old school, Just like they did it in 1978.

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Rather than a price no object build....how about building a cool 911 hotrod engine, completely from parts sourced from the Pelican Used Parts Classifieds.......let whatever unfinished project treasures become available define the build....

Nice idea, thanks for the thought.
One of the reasons for this "next" build is that I have almost everything I need in house to build this "dream/nightmare" engine. What I don't have I can make.

Henry,

Great idea. There needs to be more of this too. The more the better.

However, it's pretty hard to build something with off the shelf parts that has not been done already.
If you are to build an engine, small displacement and work on increasing the HP/L. The smaller engines have a lot of room for improvement.

My "finger in the air" told me more new parts for these old engines was wanted. The cost although important, a higher cost was accepted today more than yesterday.

More new parts that everyone can buy is my advice. You already have something, the camshaft you mentioned. Build upon that and come up with more new parts.

I’ve heard of a flat fanned, 4 valve per head, 8 cylinder motor coming together for a coachbuilder that’s Porsche adjacent. More of a Porsche evocation than a “re-imaginement” and would be evoking a mid-engined Porsche not our beloved 911. Believe 1 and 1/3rd of a case coming together but you’ll tell me if that is impossible. Certainly doesn’t seem like it would fit in a 911.

Next year marks 40 years of the 959. Can you build a better 959 motor?

so fuel injected Porsches are not cool? Ive seen plenty that would dispute that.

How about an Eaton 1.13L Roots blower.. If you did a low boost engine you could forget the intercooler or a 1bar engine and make 350 PFT at 1000 RPM. Now you might need Corvette half shafts.

What are you on about? I never said Fuel injection isn't cool. In fact I may have built some of the coolest FI porsches on the road today.
What I said was driveability over "cool factor" is counter-intuitive.

Do you have any idea how condescending that sounds?
"Buy new parts" Oh, OK
I don't need your advise about how to build air-cooled Porsche engines.
This thread was about "what built formula" would be cool so I could build it on the forum and auction it when it's complete.

You took this completely the wrong way. I was supporting your endeavor. Never gave any advice on building an engine either. Nor did I suggest you buy new parts. Rather I was suggesting creating more new parts. Not sure what you read or how.

You asked for suggestions and I gave mine without any sort of wrong intention. Merely suggested that maybe consider looking at creating new parts for customers. Even said you had a new Camshaft that was successful, so build on that and offer more.

However you read my post I cannot control that. Good luck with what you are going to do. I wish you the best,

It is certainly possible that I read your post with an undeserved attitude. I apologize.
My head is not always in the most receptive place.

I am constantly looking to design and build new parts to keep these old lawn movers running, so I appreciate the encouragement.
Cheers

No apology required. We all miss read things at times.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. The more of us that do this and create a better mouse trap the better for all.

Go to work.

I am not on about anything. A funny thing happens when you ask a forum for opinions. You get them. Why not just tell us what you want to build and move on.

I spend a large amount of my time helping people on this forum because I like the interaction. What you brought was banal. I responded to the fact that most Porsche enthusiasts don't look at these cool little projects thinking "drivablity trumps wow" appeal.
I've built literally hundreds of driveable everyday tedium....This project was intended to allow people to get creative.

The last open ended project we built.

964 based, 3.8, Slide Valve, Motec street motor designed to retrofit in an early chassis.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1749681676.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1749681676.jpg

Well after 400 engine builds you have done every internal trick and combo, so that leaves the outside sub systems to customize. Fuel, air, ignition, cooling, exhaust. How about a Vortech blower mounted where the AC compressor was.

How about spinning the fan faster and bleeding some flow to make a low pressure blower.

Interesting idea but blower kits have been around for years and really haven't made any significant inroads in popularity.

There are still engine designs that can be explored. let's get creative with engine designs not bolt on ancillary gimmicks.

As I have discussed in previous thread, spinning the fan faster does not necessarily generate additional air flow. It's a ducted fan so fan tip speeds are critical to blade cavitation. Generally, Porsche engineers increased the fan speed to compensate for low RPM running with AC. Sitting in traffic with the AC on was cooking the engines.
Those high RPM fans were generally on low RPM street motors.
Porsche even reduced the fan diameter and the crank pulley diameter on race motors to compensate for fan tip harmonics that created a cavitation.

6 more cylinders.

There might be room for 2 extra cylinders (908) but the 911 chassis is too short for a flat 12.

Once again, let's come back to earth with your suggestions.
I'm an engine builder not the tooth fairy.

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What seemingly started off as a genuine open discussion seems to have been a thinly veiled attempt to start fights.

What would you suggest to change the decorum?

My suggestion would be to stick to the thread intent.
Make suggestions about what might make a cool engine that Henry could build while we watched.
I'll start.
I like short stroke engines: Let's shoot for 9K on 91 octane.
66mm x 100mm or more?
Titanium rods
Lightened crank
Forged rockers
Super light pistons with 21mm wrist pins
Is there a way to make 2 valve cams adjustable?
I've seen something you call Venti-port. Will that work with high rpm engines?
ITB with open stacks like Singer has used in the past.
Will your super short Supertec headers work with such a build?
Twin plug of course.
Can a 3.1 SS make 350 hp on street gas?

Something like this. Singer, Rothsport ?


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