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-   -   1979 SC Chewed a Valve - Total Rebuild (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1179839-1979-sc-chewed-valve-total-rebuild.html)

Flat6pac 11-07-2025 05:19 PM

The oil pressure gets a flat aluminum, copper if you happen to have one.
Bruce

OsoMoore 11-07-2025 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest (Post 12560203)
I haven’t read a lot of the middle portion of this thread, but did you have the heads rebuilt? I would think that old exhaust studs would have been in real bad shape and the rebuilder would replace them? If they did, they should come out easier than old heat cycled ones.

Heads were rebuilt, with a twist. One of my heads was destroyed when its valve went rogue. So I sent my heads along with a bonus used head to the shop.
My heads started with very long exhaust studs, as evidenced by the pile of washers that fell out when I took off the nuts.

When the refinished heads returned, 5 had long exhaust studs and 1 had a single short exhaust stud. I added a second matching short stud to the 6th head. But I had forgotten about the long studs, until I was looking at them sticking an extra half inch out of the exhaust headers.

So... the rebuilder returned 5 long studded heads, and a head with 1 short stud. I presume this means these are the original studs. Seems kind of odd of them.

OsoMoore 11-07-2025 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat6pac (Post 12560206)
The oil pressure gets a flat aluminum, copper if you happen to have one.
Bruce

I probably have one somewhere in these baggies! Thanks for the info.

Also Wayne's book called for 25 ft/lbs on bigger camshaft oil line nuts. The crush washers were squishing more easily than that, so I stopped. Seemed too high of a torque target. They are all accessible, so if they leak I can redo easily.

Henry Schmidt 11-08-2025 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 12560217)
I probably have one somewhere in these baggies! Thanks for the info.

Also Wayne's book called for 25 ft/lbs on bigger camshaft oil line nuts. The crush washers were squishing more easily than that, so I stopped. Seemed too high of a torque target. They are all accessible, so if they leak I can redo easily.

What are "camshaft oil line nuts"?
If you mean, oil line fittings, hand tight with 574 on the threads. If you're using aluminum washers change them out for copper. The same for the banjo bolts.
574 on the threads and copper sealing rings.

Over the years we have seen some pretty low quality aluminum sealing washers (8mm case, valve cover, oil fittings). Too soft. That is one of the reasons why we source gaskets, seals and sealing washers from Wrigthwood Racing. Charlie is a perfectionist so you don't have to be.

OsoMoore 11-08-2025 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 12560450)
What are "camshaft oil line nuts"?
If you mean, oil line fittings, hand tight with 574 on the threads. If you're using aluminum washers change them out for copper. The same for the banjo bolts.
574 on the threads and copper sealing rings.

Over the years we have seen some pretty low quality aluminum sealing washers (8mm case, valve cover, oil fittings). Too soft. That is one of the reasons why we source gaskets, seals and sealing washers from Wrigthwood Racing. Charlie is a perfectionist so you don't have to be.

Yes, the oil line fittings. Thanks for the guidance, those are all very accessible so I can update.

OsoMoore 11-08-2025 12:45 PM

This morning I had a beautiful plan to do the fan, mount bar, drop on the still-fully-assembled CIS, and be ready for engine reinsertion tomorrow.

Well... that's not going to happen. When I looked into my #3 intake header, I saw some little bits of aluminum. So I pulled off a couple headers and peered into the airbox... large chunks of cylinder head. Yay!

So now I'm in for a CIS cleanup. Fortunately, I've done that before about 10 years ago. So the components are in pretty good shape, I have lots of pictures, and sort of know my way around.

I disassembled the lower stages and determined that, other than a little oil, nothing came past the throttle plate. So all the mess is in the bottom. Fuel distributor is safe, etc.

The challenges I've got:
1) I never really figured out how to take apart the bottom chamber of the airbox. It looks like it is glued or fused, in addition to the screws. That's where all the junk has landed, and it would be a lot easier to fix it if I could open it.
2) The stupid CA smog recirculator is still there mocking me. Can I just thread that hole and put a plug in it?

Some pictures of my discovery. I couldn't get a good photo of the view into the airbox, but there is at least one chunk an inch long. Also, there is the recirculator hole.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762632659.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762632659.jpg

PeteKz 11-08-2025 03:01 PM

Fill it up with soapy water and shake/agitate the crap out of it.

OsoMoore 11-08-2025 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteKz (Post 12560599)
Fill it up with soapy water and shake/agitate the crap out of it.

It was hard to make it watertight, but I did OK with some plastic wrap and shook it up with Simple Green. Got a couple more small bits out. Then looked in closely with a bright light, and worked a few hidden bits out with a brush.

I'm suspect I should replace the 10 year old intake sleeves, and the injector sleeves and orings. Mine still seem pliable... maybe that could wait?

PeteKz 11-08-2025 10:55 PM

My intake manifold sleeves are 45 years old and still not cracked. I'm still on the original injector sleeves and O-rings too, but I did replace the fat O-rings that hold the injectors into the sleeves. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

OsoMoore 11-09-2025 06:28 AM

Hmm, I'll check them over carefully for pliability and cracks. Would be nice to save the time and cost. It snowed this morning, so I'm in danger if they salt, and I can't properly go warm it up on the road after the rebuild.

Henry Schmidt 11-09-2025 06:49 AM

Chasing air leaks in a CIS system can drive you absolutely crazy.
My $.02 worth.
Some times, peace of mind has genuine value.

OsoMoore 11-09-2025 06:21 PM

I spent a few hours carefully cleaning the airbox. Did multiple rounds soap and water, as well as brushing and scrubbing. I'm going to check again with the scope in the morning, but I'm sure there is nothing substantive left inside.

I also cleaned the header pipes carefully and they are shiny. I carefully scrubbed and checked the sleeves, I didn't want to use soap chemicals on them. They are still pliable an seem in good shape.

I also checked the injector sleeves and they seems fine. I'll replace the injector o-rings. I'll have to rebuild the CIS, but I've done that before and I'm not touching any adjustments like WUR or mixture. Even using the same exact spark plug type. So hopefully CIS won't be thrown out of whack.

The one big issue is actually not inside the garage:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762741381.jpg

We got hit with snow, and its going to keep freezing this week. Now I'm worried we'll get salt on the road, which will really hamper my ability to do a break-in run.

OsoMoore 11-09-2025 06:26 PM

Oh, question for you pros in here - what should I use as a seal between the airbox and the fuel distributor mechanism? It looks like there used to be some sort of felt seal? It was falling to bits.

Some Curil-T?

Flat6pac 11-10-2025 05:05 AM

911 110 394 02 Is the product for sealing the airflow sensor to the air box.
Bruce

PeteKz 11-10-2025 01:44 PM

It's not a critical seal. The air metering unit mounts on the low pressure side of the air box. Any automotive sealer will do.

mikedsilva 11-10-2025 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteKz (Post 12561462)
It's not a critical seal. The air metering unit mounts on the low pressure side of the air box. Any automotive sealer will do.

um...

PeteKz 11-10-2025 03:30 PM

Don't want make it too hard to remove and clean off the sealer "next time." ;)

OsoMoore 11-10-2025 05:49 PM

I've been pretty pleased with how well the CIS rebuild I did 10 years ago held up. I replaced all the tubes and cleaned everything out.

I peeked in with the scope it all looks clear. Hopefully tomorrow morning I can start to re-assemble the CIS.

OsoMoore 11-11-2025 09:04 AM

Arranging the hose clamps for the sleeves is a PITA. Finally got them all on and sitting properly on the engine itself. Waiting to bolt it down until I'm sure I don't need to adjust it some more.

Working with 30 degree headers is a good way to freeze your fingers.

PeteKz 11-11-2025 01:10 PM

Last time I had the CIS off my engine, I oriented the hose clamps on the manifold/airbox seals so that I could reach them with a long screwdriver with the CIS on the engine and the engine in the car to make it easier for my future me.

OsoMoore 11-11-2025 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteKz (Post 12561962)
Last time I had the CIS off my engine, I oriented the hose clamps on the manifold/airbox seals so that I could reach them with a long screwdriver with the CIS on the engine and the engine in the car to make it easier for my future me.

That was my goal too!
But the right-side buttom ones I couldn't find an angle that allowed that. Those ones I couldn't even line up for access with the engine out - I tightened them down before lowering the CIS onto the engine.

The top and front ones weren't an issue at all. The left-side bottom I aligned to access from the back, conceivably you could get to them although not really see when in the car.

But I'm not surprised you found an angle. Just hoping I won't have to have this out again for a while. I'm supposed to torque the head studs again later as part of the break-in (per the book), hopefully I can do that without an engine drop.

PeteKz 11-11-2025 01:26 PM

I don't remember whether I was able to get all of them oriented to be easy to reach. I do know that I made an effort to do so. I'll have to go look at my engine and see if I get the ones on the right side that way.

ammonman 11-11-2025 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat6pac (Post 12561203)
911 110 394 02 Is the product for sealing the airflow sensor to the air box.
Bruce

When attaching the airflow meter to the airflow housing be sure to run the screws down until the compression springs are fully compressed, then back the screws off 1-2 turns. This is the factory "pop-off" valve that is intended to mitigate damage from backfire instead of the aftermarket "toilet seat" that usually becomes an air leak.

Henry Schmidt 11-11-2025 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammonman (Post 12562096)
When attaching the airflow meter to the airflow housing be sure to run the screws down until the compression springs are fully compressed, then back the screws off 1-2 turns. This is the factory "pop-off" valve that is intended to mitigate damage from backfire instead of the aftermarket "toilet seat" that usually becomes an air leak.

Sorry but that's just silly. The air box explosion is created when cold start fuel puddles in the distribution chamber beneath the throttle valve, There is no way for pressure to be created beyond the air flow meter into the air filter housing.
What happens is that cold start raw gas is sprayed into the distribution chamber, it puddles and as the cold engine cranks, it runs lean and back fires. If the throttle valve is closed when the back fire hits the standing fuel the pressure is created below the throttle valve and that pressure breaks the air box. The springs holding the air flow meter in place will never see an appreciable amount of pressure.
The flapper valve vents that distribution chamber into the air filter housing to prevent explosive damage.

OsoMoore 11-11-2025 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteKz (Post 12561972)
I don't remember whether I was able to get all of them oriented to be easy to reach. I do know that I made an effort to do so. I'll have to go look at my engine and see if I get the ones on the right side that way.

Somehow I thought this was a good idea. Just not enough clearance to get a screw driver down and engaged. I eventually gave up, pulled off that header, flipped the clamps, and did it from the back instead.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762922743.jpg


Also regarding the airbox - I've definitely heard the pop-off slapping back on a few occasions, and have a friend who's un-pop-offed box blew and left him in a real pickle.

Yay for pop-off valves!

OsoMoore 11-12-2025 07:24 AM

I am still looking at this plugged-off hole on the left side of the left chain cover. It has the big hex-headed plug.
My original configuration had a sensor installed there. Although the wire to it kept failing and hadn't been repaired the most recent time.

Should I attempt to remove the plug and put the sensor back in? Maybe I can worry about it later?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762563992.jpg

rwest 11-12-2025 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 12562292)
I am still looking at this plugged-off hole on the left side of the left chain cover. It has the big hex-headed plug.
My original configuration had a sensor installed there. Although the wire to it kept failing and hadn't been repaired the most recent time.

Should I attempt to remove the plug and put the sensor back in? Maybe I can worry about it later?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762563992.jpg

My memory might be foggy, but I seem to remember that sensor being the thermo time valve that does something for the CIS?

Flat6pac 11-12-2025 07:49 AM

That’s a temperature probe that activates the cold start injector.
Bruce

OsoMoore 11-12-2025 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat6pac (Post 12562304)
That’s a temperature probe that activates the cold start injector.
Bruce

Ok, might be good to get that hooked up before these new starts in 40 degree weather.
Hopefully the plug screws out easy.

Henry Schmidt 11-12-2025 09:27 AM

Not that it makes a difference on your build, I never understood why that cover continued to be cast with the air pump boss, so we just machine it off. We also like using an Allen plug on the sensor hole.
Serves no purpose what so ever, except aesthetics. Fun stuff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762968170.jpg

PeteKz 11-12-2025 11:32 PM

That hole is where the thermo-time switch goes. It controls the cold start injector. Unless you want hard cold starting, reinstall and hook it back up. Although I simplified my CIS by removing the AAR, AAV, deceleration valve, and related plumbing, I left the TTS and thermo valve (under the left #3 intake runner) connected for ease of cold starting.

OsoMoore 11-13-2025 06:26 AM

Sounds good. I put it in this morning, although I'm going to need to splice the wire going to it. Fortunately its tiny wire-hookup screws aren't missing.

Getting quite close here!

Henry Schmidt 11-13-2025 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 12562181)
Somehow I thought this was a good idea. Just not enough clearance to get a screw driver down and engaged. I eventually gave up, pulled off that header, flipped the clamps, and did it from the back instead.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762922743.jpg


Also regarding the airbox - I've definitely heard the pop-off slapping back on a few occasions, and have a friend who's un-pop-offed box blew and left him in a real pickle.

Yay for pop-off valves!

As you are learning, replacing the rubber intake sleeves is impossible (without removing the entire intake) if you find the need. That alone should dictate the rationale behind replacing those sleeves when you have the intake off. Rubber deteriorates with heat and time. Doubt what I'm saying? Every tyre comes with a production date....why? Rubber dies with time and heat.

The only issues I've seen with the pop valve are installation failures. Poor quality epoxy or the valve installed facing the wrong way. The hinge should be on the outer edge so when the valve opens the leading edge of the lid doesn't hit the air filter.

OsoMoore 11-13-2025 07:22 PM

I'm also looking at a new wiring harness. Does it ever stop costing more? I feel like my last 13 years have been blissfully cheap.

OsoMoore 11-13-2025 08:57 PM

Looks like there are two possible part numbers for the harness:
91161201603 - Made for externally regulated alternators
91161201604 - Made for internally (alternator-mounted) systems

My car is a 79 but has the newer in-the-alternator regulator. So I'm pretty sure I need the 91161201604 version. Does that sound right?

mikedsilva 11-13-2025 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 12562705)
As you are learning, replacing the rubber intake sleeves is impossible (without removing the entire intake) if you find the need. That alone should dictate the rationale behind replacing those sleeves when you have the intake off. Rubber deteriorates with heat and time. Doubt what I'm saying? Every tyre comes with a production date....why? Rubber dies with time and heat.

The only issues I've seen with the pop valve are installation failures. Poor quality epoxy or the valve installed facing the wrong way. The hinge should be on the outer edge so when the valve opens the leading edge of the lid doesn't hit the air filter.

Henry is right.

My opinion... if you are considering spending bazillions on a new engine harness, then "treat yourself" to new intake boots, gaskets, injector sleeve, o-rings etc..

Henry Schmidt 11-14-2025 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OsoMoore (Post 12563024)
Looks like there are two possible part numbers for the harness:
91161201603 - Made for externally regulated alternators
91161201604 - Made for internally (alternator-mounted) systems

My car is a 79 but has the newer in-the-alternator regulator. So I'm pretty sure I need the 91161201604 version. Does that sound right?

Here is an American made product that is top shelf and avoids import tariffs.
I've used the product and it is stellar. We make our own harnesses for our custom engines but for stock replacement you won't be disappointment.

DP Engine Harness
Dennis Powell
Ph. 360-878-6276
powellgillam@hotmail.com
https://powell3080.wixsite.com/911-harnesses/original-style-harnesses





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1763127128.jpg

OsoMoore 11-14-2025 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt (Post 12563091)
Here is an American made product that is top shelf and avoids import tariffs.
I've used the product and it is stellar. We make our own harnesses for our custom engines but for stock replacement you won't be disappointment.

DP Engine Harness
Dennis Powell
Ph. 360-878-6276
powellgillam@hotmail.com
https://powell3080.wixsite.com/911-harnesses/original-style-harnesses


Thanks for the link, I'm also checking with another Pelican who makes harnesses.

911 Rod 11-14-2025 01:01 PM

Why a new wiring harness? You can do a lot with adhesive shrink tubing.

OsoMoore 11-14-2025 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911 Rod (Post 12563285)
Why a new wiring harness? You can do a lot with adhesive shrink tubing.

Good question. Four related factors building towards a conclusion.

1) When hooking up the fan/alternator, the insulation on the ground wire snapped when I had to bend it to fit. It is a ground, so it touching things isn't technically an issue. I was hoping to cover it for now with heat-shrink, but other parts wanted to crumble too. Its also a major current path, so a reliable conductor is important. This is a separate ground wire, not part of the harness.

2) When adjusting the through-the-shroud bundle, the covering on the bundle was brittle and cracked. It stayed on, but wasn't properly protecting the bundle from abrasion. I was going to wrap it with electrical tape to extend its life.

3) The wire up the back to the air metering switch was worn through, possible pinched on something. Exposed copper. Still seemed to have solid wire underneath and no short, so I was going to wrap it up as-is and address later.

4) The wire down to the thermotime switch had broken off its spade connector and the wire was too short. I was going to splice a longer wire and repair it. But then the second wire two it also cracked and was crumbling where it comes out of its sleeve further up. I was going to need to split the sleeve a bit to get solid wire. But the sleeve was cracking when I tried to flex it.

It became apparent that the harness was aging apart at many points that I could see, and thus likely at additional points that I cannot see. I could spend money to rebuild parts on my own, or I could break down and replace the whole thing.

Shorts or breaks in the harness can lead to gremlins and misbehavior at best, and a fire at worst. Right now the engine is out, and the CIS is easily accessed. As much as I hate to spend another bunch of cash, I think I should do this now.

And as Henry strongly suggested, I'm getting new intake sleeves while I wait. Those, at least, are cheap. Better to do it correct right now.


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