I'm a little surprise that your heads came back with exhaust studs installed. We generally remove the intake and exhaust studs when we do a valve job. It is probably a habit we got into when we started to see customers trying to remove exhaust studs at home because they didn't fit the exhaust system they were installing.
We always use the best quality studs available but DIN 938 or 939 are pretty standard.

As for your sump screen issue: What pump are you using? We are finding that some of the aftermarket pumps and sump screens have some fitment issues. You can probably manipulate the screen to accommodate the sump cover. I would suggest that compressing the screen (slightly) with the sump cover is generally required.
When you retrofit a permanent screen pump (late 83 and later) in an sump plate case you will need a retrofit cover. Once again, not all the covers are made equally.
We used to offer a sump cast aluminum sump cover but the tooling was stolen so the new product is still in production.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762097462.JPG

How the screen should fit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762097853.JPG

This screen is entirely too tall. Your next concern will be: If I reshape the screen will there be enough clearance for the oil to enter the pickup venturi?
My guess is yes, but I'm not in your garage holding your hand.

Ok, I messaged my local shop who helped order the main parts set. It seems this project has no shortage of surprises.

Maybe the screen screws deeper in or something? Will investigate.

Micrometer shows 0.4 inches extended past the case.

The generic curved plate I currently have has a 0.35 in gap when it's contacting the screen.

The curved plate with oil drain that I got from our host has a 0.485 in gap.

I had seen suggestions about shimming it out using the old second piece screens rim but it's far too big of a gap for that.

That's really odd. I wonder if the venturi (the hole where the oil goes into the pump) is located correctly. Can you take a bottom view pic of the screen?

Do not shim the sump plate. Whoever suggested that must have memories of the deep sump on the type four engine.
Your best bet is to measure the distance from the screen to the venturi. Then compare that to the gap you are seeing when the sump cover touches the screen. If the gap to the venturi leaves you adequate space for oil the scavenge freely, you should be alright. If the gap to the venturi is less than say 6 mm, you will have to find another pump.
There are some here who tend to be rather neanderthal so you might consider bending the pickup in place. If you go that route, leave me out....lol

I was originally going to get that one, but I called PP tech line and the Porsche expert (waited a while in line to talk to him) said the one I bought should fit. I think I may ask them to have someone measure the darn thing before shipping it to me.

Took a pic, see below. Looks to be about 1/3 the total protrusion of the screen. Screen is sticking 0.4 inches, or 10 mm. So screen extends approximately 7 mm past the venturi.

Per my rough calc above, we have 7 mm from venturi to screen. See pic below. For more precision, I can take a pin out there and measure manually.

I swear I've taken that engine's sleeping bag on and off a hundred times so far.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762125700.jpg

Any chance your oil pickup got bent in shipping? I can't imagine how else you got here.
All 911 oil pumps have a similar pickup location so it not a case of "wrong" part.

I'll talk to my shop guy, but it seems unlikely. I'd think it would be difficult to bend without some serious force.

Tomorrow I can check carefully to see if it is at all "tilted" with respect to the case.

EDIT: This photo seems to show it is quite straight. A bend would leave it tilted.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762129514.jpg

For thin flange heat boxes, it looks like the new studs are too long, made for thick flange heat boxes.
Bruce

Actually the pickup tube is fairly fragile. It could easily be bent in shipping.
The alternative is that the pickup tube was manufactured improperly. Given that the tube is furnace brazed to a flat flange, it is probable made in a jig. The thing about a jig is they are fairly consistent. It is possible that the venturi was brazed incorrect to the tube but same situation applies. Probably a jig.

If you get to the point where you take the engine apart, I can supply a factory pickup to replace yours.

Do you know about the largest river in North Africa?

The challenge you'll have even if you manage to re-shape the screen enough, is that you've only got ~7 mm of screen to venturi gap to play with, which is less than the ~.4" sump plate gap you need to make up to get it to seat on the case. The venturi will be essentially touching the sump plate and there won't be enough space for the pump to properly scavenge the oil. Damn.

Later this morning I'm going to call a couple of places that have what look like deeper plates, and ask them to measure theirs. Patrick Motorsports has a custom one. I'm also going to call our host and see if someone can measure their aluminum one.

The 10 mm (0.4") is from the screen to the case.
The 3 mm is from the venturi to case.

With the plates on: The curved plate w/out oil plug I've got now gives me about 3 mm gap, and the curved plate w/ oil plug looks like around 7 mm.

So we really can't give up much screen deformation (even if we could do that safely) before we hit the 6 mm gap minimum.

PM emailed back:

Our sump plate is roughly 13.5mm deep, a little over 1/2". These were designed and made for the exact type of application you are referring to, as we often use the newer style or GT3 style oil pump in many of our engine builds.

https://i.imgur.com/2cqXUH4.png

Looks promising. How much deeper is that than the plates you already have? Sorry if I missed that measurement in your previous posts. I think the stamped steel plates might be like 1/4" deep? From your measurements, you need an additional .4" depth compared to you already have.

Measuring from my case to the peak of the screen-cover was 0.4 inches.
The current plates I've got are curved and shallower, and have more curve than the oil pump screen.

https://i.imgur.com/Piydkws.png

OK, I may have misunderstood your measurements in the earlier post. If your screen is .4" and the new sump plate option is .5", it sounds like a good fit with ~.1" clearance. On the motor I'm building (SC case, 930 pump), the stock plate has about that amount of clearance.

I get the feeling there are 3 pump depths: SC pumps, Carrera pumps, and turbo pumps. The lesser curved ones probably are fine for Carreras, but not these.

That thought doesn’t work because the cases are all the same casting, Carrera and turbo.
Bruce

This feeling is creative but not accurate. All pump pickup locations are the same.
That fact is true all the way back to 1964.
The pickup configurations have changed, (curved tube inserted into a screen, a curved tube inserted into a venturi attached to a screen, a venturi attached to the tube with a separate screen, venturi attach to the tube with a screen attached) but the pickup location has remained constant.

We actually have a jig to guarantee that consistent location, that we use when we rebuild pumps. Sometimes the early pickup tubes come loose so an alignment jig makes checking the location possible.

yeah, I think I know what you mean....

SC pumps use a flat plate
Carrera 3.2 pumps can use the shallow domed stamped steel plate
3.6 pumps need the deeper aftermarket plates.

I've been through this, and posted my measurements in another thread a couple years ago. Same numbers as you.

The precision matters plates work.

But that Patrick Motorsports item looks sensational!

I almost bought one of the Precision ones, but thought I the other curved one worked just as well. Oh well. Now I'll have 4 plates. Maybe I can sell the "wrong" ones.

Here's the photos PM sent me when confirming my fit. Could be helpful to people in the future having oil sump plate fit issues.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762302115.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762302115.jpg

Didn't realize the later pump screens could protrude more. Good to know, I'm planning to put a 3.6 pump into an early case for "future project" build.

Picked up the newly powder-coated engine tin, cross bar, transmission mount, etc. today.
Today's mail should also include rockers/arms from Supertec, oil, spark plugs, and the new deeper oil sump plate.

Tomorrow I'm taking the day off work and planning to finish up the long block, put on exhaust, etc. Some friends will help me get the engine off the mount and we'll be targeting a weekend re-install of the engine.

Much excitement!

Related - Adapt has three different sump plate depths to accommodate for SC vs 3.2/Turbo/GT3 screen depth: https://adaptmotorsport.com/collections/current-products/products/porsche-911-engine-sump-cover-plate

(not a shill, just relevant to this convo!)

Looks like the Adapt plates are two depths to match the early and late factory style plates. Description for the third option mentions that it's the same depth as #2 but with two fittings for turbo drains.

Big day - started early taking out all 8 old sump plate studs to put in the new longer studs. No issues, all came out clean!

What's the best way to put in the new ones? Just one of the old ones appeared to have loctite, should I do the same for the news? Just put them in snug via the allen wrench fitting?

https://i.imgur.com/MlwMwr4.jpeg

I have the same cover. Here with my 993 pump. I used blue loctite on the studs. Snug yes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762443364.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762443364.jpg

Looks good. Loctited and put new tensioner arms back in (thanks Henry).
Now warming up my RSR o-rings to put them on my barrels. They were 35 degrees from the garage, so I'm sitting on them for a few min before I stretch them out.

Long day, got a lot done.
- Installed intake and exhaust rockers for 1 and 4. Checked cylinder/valve clearance, all good.
- Assembled the rest of the barrels, adjusting bolt, and locking nuts for other rockers.
- Installed but did not adjust all the rest of the rockers. All torqued, however.
- Installed new sump cover studs. Two of them seated too deep and had to be backed out a bit. Will keep an eye on them, maybe will need to replace.
- Installed new tensioner arms from Supertec
- Re-oiled-filled and installed tensioners
- Closed chain housings
- Placed valve covers on loosely with finger-tight bolts to keep area clean
- Installed spark plugs loosely to keep things clean. Did not set gaps yet.
- Began to install heat exchangers, discovered/remembered the stud length (as noted by earlier poster) was too long on all but the new head. A previous owner (probably Lee?) stacked a ton of washers in order to make the barrel nuts useable on the inner studs.

At that point, I decided to stop of the day. Dr. Pate is somewhere around here, so if someone wants to drag him to this thread he can explain himself.

Tomorrow there will be a ton of things, but one key one is to get the engine ready to take off its mount down onto the motorcycle lift. That requires some assistance from friends, and I can always do the CIS afterwards. That's what drove me towards the heat exchangers today.
The configuration of the engine stand mount prohibits installation of the cross-over pipe on the exhaust, so I think I won't be fully tightening the heat exchangers yet, as they'll need play to connect the cross-pipe. I'll figure that out later.

So this is a problem that I must address.
The studs on 5 of the cylinders are a good bit too long. A previous owner stacked a bunch of washers so they could still use the barrel nuts on the inner studs. Unsurprisingly, I found one stud had lost its nut (and presumably washers) somewhere along the way.

So... what's the best fix?
1) Pull the exhaust studs out and put in new shorter ones. Not sure how feasible this is, or how long it would take to get the new studs.
2) Shorten the studs in-place by cutting them with... something? Not sure if this is viable.
3) Find a way to put on normal nuts instead of barrel nuts. Doesn't look quite impossible to reach.
4) Use spacers or maybe even a stack of washers and repeat the rigging of my predecessor.

I'll do some looking into stud removal... not sure which way to go.

Pull the studs and put in the correct ones. They come out pretty easy, just like the other ones you pulled out and replaced. It’s worth waiting a few days for the parts.

The answer to the barrel nuts is 8mm JIS nuts with 12mm shoulders.
Use 1/4 drive and 12mm socket, you might have to grind the outside of the 12 socket if you don’t have snap on 12 which goes into the holes with clearance to tighten the nut.
Bruce

Unless I've misread your posts above, you are contemplating removing EXHAUST STUDS... Unless they've recently been changed, I've never found them to come out any other way but drilling them out.

Stomski sells a handy tool but you're in for a long painful task.

If you dont want to stack washers or spacers, do as bruce says and find some 12mm nuts.

Yes, exhaust stud. Drilling these out sounds awful!

After more pondering, I think I can use a 1/2 spacer while I wait for JIS order. Will also need a new narrower socket that fits.

I just removed one from my 2.7…used heat, came out no problem…


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762546840.jpg

I’m sure this isn’t always the case though…

Lots of progress today! And a couple questions (at the end).
- Adjusted all valves
- Gapped, installed, torqued spark plugs. Now its harder to turn over, but makes a nice hiss.
- Cleaned and installed the shaft plate
- Cleaned and installed the distributor
- Installed the exhaust headers using spacers, did not torque (waiting until all exhaust is attached)
- Installed cross pipe and CAT bypass
- Installed oil cooler. Drove across town to pick up missing seals. Found seals an hour later.
- Got help from a 6-year-old. He stayed until the dog came outside, then he left me.
- Preparing to install chain tensioner oil tubes, suddenly became uncertain that I had put the 13 mm nut on the tensioner shaft. Removed chain cover #1 and found I had indeed forgotten. Removed #2, also missed. I had been in a rush and interrupted yesterday. Put on the nuts, fortunately had spare gaskets.
- Put on chain tensioner oil tubes. Had to scavenge a few fittings from what came off, fortunately all fits.
- Lowered the engine off the stand and onto old ramps/blocks! I wanted to do this before it got too heavy, and I'm finished everything on the bottom.

A couple questions:
- My oil pressure sender looks like its supposed to have a thick o-ring. Is this one right? (1st pic).
- My oil temp sensor doesn't fit in this hole (2nd pic) although the book shows it there. It won't go all the way in. On my new tensioner kit cover plates, there's a plugged hole. (3rd pic). My old plates had that open, and that's where my temp sensor was installed. Should I remove the plug from the new plate and swap it with the other location?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762563870.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762563971.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1762563992.jpg

I haven’t read a lot of the middle portion of this thread, but did you have the heads rebuilt? I would think that old exhaust studs would have been in real bad shape and the rebuilder would replace them? If they did, they should come out easier than old heat cycled ones.