Anti-Seize

[1fastredsc]

Quick question for the motor gods, I used a small touch of anti-seize on the nuts that clamp down the cam housing to the heads (since previously in the rebuild book it mentions using anti-seize for headstuds, i figured why not for the nuts that get torqued to the head too). Will this be a problem if the anti-seize mixes with the oil on first startup? Should i try and wipe as much of the excess off as possible?

[Wayne 962]

It's a good question. The reason why antiseize is generally not needed inside the engine is because the oil keeps things from rusting. I would not use it on anything that is internal to the engine (okay to use on the nuts that are external to the engine).

-Wayne

[911pcars]

It seems there are those who are pro anti-seize and there are those who are anti-anti-seize.

Should we start another anti-seize thread or just look at the last post from .... yesterday?

Sherwood

[snowman]

You should only have to worry about antiseize with aluminum parts. ANYTHING screwed into an aluminum part must have antiseize on it. Aluminum galls easily, that simple. Spark plugs are a prime example.

[911pcars]

Numerous metals will gall w/o anti-seize. Titanium for one (as if we have that many of these pieces inside our engine) as well as stainless. Also prevents galvanic reaction when mating dissimilar metals. A small amount in the engine internals shouldn't hurt anything, but wipe excess after using.

Sherwood

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by snowman
You should only have to worry about antiseize with aluminum parts. ANYTHING screwed into an aluminum part must have antiseize on it. Aluminum galls easily, that simple. Spark plugs are a prime example.

Not according to Porsche. Porsche specifically recommends not to use anti-seize on spark plugs for all 911s, according to Porsche Technical Bulletin 9102, Group 2, identifier 2870. Look it up...

-Wayne

[911pcars]

"....according to Porsche Technical Bulletin 9102, Group 2,"

I wonder why? Maybe they're afraid it'll retard heat transfer to the head. I personally smear a small amount on the threads before installation to make sure it'll come out the next time, but to each his own.

Sherwood

[rw7810]

I believe they recommend this to lessen any grounding (weak spark) issues.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by rw7810
I believe they recommend this to lessen any grounding (weak spark) issues.

Are we going to beat this old nag yet again??
Porsche can stick that bulletin you know where.

When you consider the tight contact between the spark plug and cyl. head threads, it's nonsense to suggest a bit of anti-seize will affect grounding significantly, if at all.

Actually, I use Fel-Pro graphite anti-seize which improves electrical conductivity.

[1fastredsc]

On Spark plugs you shoudn't need to anyhow, they always come with new aluminum crush washers.
But back to the question, my reason for asking is because that thread on torquing rod bolts has me paranoid with acheiving proper torque since it's not an accurate way of measuring clamp force. So, since i was reusing the nuts, but had new washers, i figured i'd chase the threads with a tap, then use anti-seize as a lubricant for the threads. But after doing so, i got the thinking about the oil mixing with antiseize and whether there's some chemical mixture hazard in doing so for the oil.
I'd like to add that while using the anti-seize as thread lube, i got all the torquing for the heads and cam tower good on the first try (i put my cam in both sides after final torque and with some oil it rotates fine).

[snowman]

What the heck do Al crush washers have to do with anti sieze?? Its the threads that sieze, not the crush surface.

You might want to research sps fasteners, from a technical point of view. The threads burnish on each use, making them more slippery, reducing the torque required to acheive the same clampling force. How much? A whole lot, eg starting torque may be 18 ft lbs, but after a couple uses it may be as low as 12 ft lbs, same lube. Even with the exact same specified lube torque varies as much as 50 percent! or more!!! Using other lubes can change things much much more, so bottom line, on rod bolts, use streatch. and or new hardware each time.

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by Doug Zielke
Are we going to beat this old nag yet again??
Porsche can stick that bulletin you know where.

I can't win. In one thread people beat me up for recommending something that the factory doesn't (and hold the Porsche gurus as holier than thou). Then in this one, people say bah humbug to the factory.

I'll just stick by my own conclusions...

-Wayne

[Doug Zielke]

It's ok Wayne, I'd never think of "beating" you up!
But once you experience a stripped/seized plug, it's anti-seize from then on.

[1fastredsc]

I don't really follow you snowman, but oh well, i still haven't had my original question asked though. If a little anti-seize mixes with the motor oil, will it cause harm?

[ChrisBennet]

The Bosch plugs have some sort of antisieze coating on them from the factory. Maybe Porsche reason for their "no antiseize " recommendation is because the torque spec is "dry" or that they have concerns about O2 sensor contamination?
-Chris

[911pcars]

"If a little anti-seize mixes with the motor oil, will it cause harm?"

No, it's a grease, but you seem like you want to hear it from Snowman.

MHO,
Sherwood

[markwemple]

Having seen many the resuly of dis-similar metal to metal contact on old british cars I can tell you one thing, they don't like each other!!! If you want a steel bolt to come out of a piece of aluminum at a later date there is only one way to do it, anti-sieze. Now for which type, I prefer copper but.......

[snowman]

Question on Porsches that the factory does not reccommend anti sieze on- Does Poesche use some kind of thread inserts in these motors? IF they do then you would not have steel vs aluminum.

As to mixing antisieze with motor oil for a thread lube for engine assembly, eg connecting rod bolts. NO- always follow the mfg (of the bolt) or the factory if using factory bolts, directions. If given a choice, use the streach method as a first choice, torque to angle as a second, and torque as last. Always use the specified lube. And to further emphasize this, this is not an off the wall "snowman" thing, its by the book, and as far as I know the only officially recommended way to handle critical fasteners.

PS Wayne, your learning- point isn't winning or loosing a discussion, just doing it is what counts. Now wining and losing in racing is a differen't story, winners are well winners and losers, well losers.

[1fastredsc]

Wait, hold on, i think it just hit me, you guys think i used it on my rod bolts. Good god no, only on the head's barrel nuts as described by wayne's book and a little on the nuts for the cam tower to heads, that's it. I didn't even rebuild the bottom end, this has only been a top end rebuild. And for the record, when i completely rebuilt my previous 944's engine, i used a ton of oil on the factory made rod bolts that i used. I believe the car's somewhere around 20k miles now without issues.
911pcars, thanks for the advice, that's all i was looking for.

[armandodiaz]

I would be weiry of using anti-sieze on any crutial part that needs to be torqued. I beleive this would inpeed the torque spec.