Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Doug Steinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 638
Garage
JEistons vs. Mahle

Are the JE pistons just as good as Mahle? If so, whyare they so cheap. Usually you get what you pay for. Looking for people who have tried the JE's for more than a few K miles. Will I get the same mileage out of a set of JE's as a set of Mahles?
__________________
77 911, 3.0L
Old 05-03-2004, 05:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
what? me worry?
 
TimT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wantagh, NY
Posts: 6,964
Yes JE's are fine..

I have over 6 years of running time in my 2.2....they were re-ringed once just because I had the top end apart for twin plug mods..

Also, I dont believe JE's are cheap!! Like with most things for our cars we pay a premium... small market etc...

others will obviously give different opinions..
__________________
who are those guys? <<< ( Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)
Rent a GT3RS from us!! Call or e-mail.
Transportation and Track support
Rudtners Racing

'69 911 GT-5
'75 914 GT-3
Authorised Haltech seller and installer
Authorised Unichip installer
BBS wheels
Fikse wheels
Redline motors oils
Swepco
1500 hp chassis dyno
Old 05-03-2004, 05:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
dtw dtw is offline
GAFB
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 7,817
Note that you also get brand new cylinders with a set of Mahles...you're on your own for good used, reconditioned, or new aftermarket ($$$) cylinders when buying JEs and other aftermarket pistons.
__________________
'72 911T MFI VW Silver Metallic
'84 911 M491 non-sunroof Slate Blue
'01 996tt Lapis Blue
Old 05-03-2004, 05:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
davidl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 100
It is difficult to generalise. but I would say that some are a little different.

Specifically, the 81mm race piston for the old 2L Carrera/S is slightly, about 6%, heavier than the 40 year old Mahle design!

And depending on discounts, Andial were doing the Mahles for 1200 the set, which is not much more than the JE's tend to make.

IMHO, the JE's are overpriced...as Wayne says, not much competition....

Kind regards
David
Old 05-04-2004, 04:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Doesn't want/need a 3.6L
 
Carrera3.5L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,635
Garage
I am not familiar with how JE's are for 911 applications, but I have had a lot of problems with JE in water-cooled VW applications. Based on those experiences, I would only consider using JE in race applications where the motor would have a finite life span and Mahle's for street use where you want to get 100K plus out of them.

FWIW, I am using Mahle 100's for my 3.5L twin-plug street motor, but I got an absolute smokin deal on them so it made the decision much easier.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Ralph
__________________
1988 Carrera w/ 3.5L Twin-Plug

2008 Cayman S (coming soon)
Old 05-04-2004, 08:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Doug Steinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 638
Garage
Ralph,

What kind of problems did you have with the JE pistons in your VW applications? Do you have any reason to think the JE won't have decent longevity in a 911 street application? If they don't last, then they aren't a saving since we know Mahles go for 150k.
__________________
77 911, 3.0L
Old 05-05-2004, 01:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Doesn't want/need a 3.6L
 
Carrera3.5L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,635
Garage
Mr. Steinel,

In all honesty, the problems we are having are generally quality control issues that once JE gets sorted (i.e. reworks or replaces) the problems are solved for the customer.

For example, our latest problem (that we are solving right now) is 3 sets of 83.5mm pistons to make a 2.1L 16V motor do not have the holes bored to fit the wrist pins. Granted this is an option that JE provides as some engine builders prefer to do this step themselves. We however paid for this option and of course expected it to be done. Somebody at JE simply missed a step. Unfortunately, these kind of things seem to happen a little too frequently.

I have also seen differences between pistons from the same set, some seem to be deburred with a dremmel (sp?) and some by hand. Not impressed when the set doesn't look the same. We don't sell that many VW sets a year (20-25) but probably have some sort of issue with about 20% of them. Is this considered acceptable?

I think JE's strength is that they can build virtually any piston type in any size with CR you require, but I think that you really need to provide them the engineering information and say "here, build this". I think when you leave some of the engineering work to JE their solutions might not be the same as to what you had in mind.

Bear in mind also that we are only recommending JE's for water-cooled race motors and for the street guys that have added a supercharger or turbocharged the motor (there are a lot of these guys out there!). The OEM cast Mahle's or Kolbenschmidts will not last in these harsher environments. The JE's will certainly last longer in these applications and the forged piston is better suited than an OEM Mahle cast piston for turbocharging but people who have these 300-400 bhp turbo VR6's and 1.8T's certainly do not expect the motor to last over 100K. Remember, us VW guys don't have many options either, we can either choose the couple of oversize options that are available from Mahle or we can go to JE to have something custom done.

Take it for what it's worth, I can't tell you what kind of issues the 911 engine builders are having with JE quality. You may want to call Steve Weiner at Rennsport in Portland to talk more about the 911 specs, but I know he concurs with me and will only use JE's in a race application. That should tell you something.

Ralph
__________________
1988 Carrera w/ 3.5L Twin-Plug

2008 Cayman S (coming soon)

Last edited by Carrera3.5L; 05-05-2004 at 10:33 AM..
Old 05-05-2004, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
Good info Ralph. However, here's an alternative thought. Mahle makes standard pistons and cylinders in standard sizes (no custom stuff, unless you buy 20-30 sets or so). The JE's are highly used in custom jobs on race engines, where failures may or may not be attributed to the pistons themselves.

I have a tendency to think that JEs get a bad rap from people who use them in overstressed race or street engines (too much boost?). A piston in this situation is going to fail, whether it's a JE or a Mahle one. I've had many customer run JEs in their street engines with good success. These customers weren't pushing the limits of the engine, but simply going with a JE piston in order to give a mild increase in compression and to save some $$$ on the replacement costs.

Just a thought...

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 05-05-2004, 12:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Doesn't want/need a 3.6L
 
Carrera3.5L's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,635
Garage
Wayne,

I would agree with you 100%. I should have mentioned in a previous post that when one of these high stressed VR6 or 1.8T turbo motor fails, it may not be the fault of the pistons themselves. My bad, didn't mean to alarm anybody. Some of these kids are running over 20 psi of boost!

Like I said, I don't have any experience with JE in 911 motors so I will certainly defer to you and your experiences. I just figured that if we were having quality control issues than other people probably are as well. JE's will probably work just fine in alot of cases, but mine won't be one of them!

FWIW, if the Mahle's were not available and it meant staying 3.2L or putting bigger JE's in, I WOULD put the JE's in if I could source a good set of cylinders.

I'm tired of nothing below 3,500-4,000. A 3.5L twin-plug will change that!

Ralph
__________________
1988 Carrera w/ 3.5L Twin-Plug

2008 Cayman S (coming soon)
Old 05-05-2004, 01:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
One more followup - JE has a bunch of pre-programmed piston profiles that they have been making for years. I can't speak for the accuracy of the custom stuff, but I think if you order a standard set (like the higher compression 2.RS set), you have an extremely good chance of getting exactly what you need, because they just plug in the program they've been using for many years...

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 05-05-2004, 04:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,854
In over three years, we haven't had any failures or quality control issues with the JEs, although on occasion they will mess up an order, but for us it's only happened when we expedite an order. In some cases, we use other pistons, like keith black's, when available, since they provide the best bang for the buck. In any case, JE is really good about making good on their mistakes.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
Old 05-08-2004, 07:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
geof33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 1,382
Wayne,

Does JE have a website? Or, is the info available here? I'm going to be doing weber 40's on a 3.0 and need a piston to deal with the carbs, yet keep the compression ratio at or near 9.8:1. I don't have the resourses to do a full twin plug conversion. Also, I need info on the proper cam to run for this setup.
__________________
GruppeB #935

84 Carrera Targa B.A.S.T.A.R.D. (for sale)
82 SC RSR Project (on ebay)
95 Dodge Ram 2500
03 Toyota 4runner
Old 05-12-2004, 02:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nearby
Posts: 50,139
Garage
Send a message via AIM to fintstone
I had JEs put in my 3.0 and am very happy. It it has an 81 bottom end with a 78 big port topend for effectively an euro spec engine. My wrench used webcam 20/21s and JE 9.3:1 with early CIS...His opinion is that it is the optimum setup since the JEs are lighter and the piston tops are set up for this specific application. The engine/car is quiet, incredibly quick, and smooth as silk. I only have a few thousand miles on it, but am really happy so far.
__________________
74 Targa 3.0, 89 Carrera, 04 Cayenne Turbo
http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/fintstone/
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender
Old 05-13-2004, 08:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Somewhere in the Midwest
 
MotoSook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the barn!
Posts: 12,495
Awaken!

So! Let's hear it gang..who's running JE pistons? Any seizing or galling lately? I'm talking about current data...none of this myth from the 80's stuff. No offense to anyone who may have had bad experiences, but lets work with current cases, as I'm sure the metallurgy has been imporved (gosh I hope so!).

Last edited by MotoSook; 10-27-2004 at 12:25 PM..
Old 10-27-2004, 12:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,614
OOps, I posted a similar thread continuation on the tech board.
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 10-27-2004, 12:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Somewhere in the Midwest
 
MotoSook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the barn!
Posts: 12,495
Jamie...what are the 98mm's that you have. I'm looking for 98mm pistons for a 3.4 from a 3.2 Carrera engine.
Old 10-27-2004, 12:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,614
Souk, you have a PM
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 10-27-2004, 12:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Somewhere in the Midwest
 
MotoSook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the barn!
Posts: 12,495
Thanks J.

More to this thread...what about the shape of the JE pistons? Do they all come with a standard top? Or can they be ordered with mild valve pockets and shaping to optimize combustion in a single plugged application. Wayne?


I tried looking for the JE web page, but ran out of time and patience...anyone know it?
Old 10-27-2004, 01:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:26 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.