Wayne-head stud question

markwemple · 05-13-2004, 05:45 AM

I've used mapp/oxy on my head studs for removal. Most came out but a few are being very stubborn. I've used the correct tecnique -steady flame just inside the case where the sud goes in to heat the case before the stud - and went through 2 1/2 bottles of oxygen (25-30 mins) and it didn't budge, My Q is I didn't try your canned air trick. DO you think that should be my next step or just go straight to O/A the way many pelicans have reccomended?

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

There are many opinions on this. If you have access to the O/A torch, and know how to use it, then go to town. It can be a dangerous tool if you don't have experience with it.

There's no right or wrong answer on this one - the canned air trick worked for me, when I was using a relatively low-heat propane torche...

-Wayne

cnavarro · 05-14-2004, 07:25 PM

I've sent cases to Rimco (Riddle Machine Co.) in southern california to have studs removed. They have them wire EDM'ed out of the case, usually without damaging the case. I've only had one single case that needed one single timesert needed to correct the case.

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

Doug Steinel · Doug Steinel's Garage

Mark,

I can help you get those remaining studs out when I get back from Italy on May 28th. Won't one of these rent-a-tool outfits rent you an Oxy/Acet torch? I think you only have to go to the EDM solution if the studs break off flush with the case and you can't get a grip on them...which isn't your scenario.

markwemple · 05-16-2004, 05:27 PM

Someone from the local dorkiphus board is lending me his!!

dtw · 05-16-2004, 05:47 PM

Is this harder on Al cases? I've never needed more than 30 seconds per stud with propane on Mg cases.

john walker's workshop · 05-16-2004, 06:21 PM

it's not uncommon to have a few holdouts that need a lot more heat than the rest. use a robust flame, not a little tiny one. i've never melted a case yet with oxy/acet. just don't get the white part of the flame too close to the case.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dtw
Is this harder on Al cases? I've never needed more than 30 seconds per stud with propane on Mg cases.

Yes, magnesium is much softer than aluminum, so the problems that people have here are typically related to aluminum cases. Many mag cases will let their studs go without the addition of heat. The aluminum is another story. When combined with the brittle Dilavar studs, getting them out can be a huge pain (see Project 95 in 101 Projects)...

-Wayne

markwemple · 05-17-2004, 06:30 AM

Plus, a mag case can turn into a ball of fire with the help of O/A!

john walker's workshop · 05-17-2004, 07:16 AM

let's hear it from all of those who's mag case flamed on. i think you're overly worried about this.

markwemple · 05-17-2004, 08:00 AM

I haven't heard of any (probably because it was never needed, except for exhaust work) but I have heard of interesting brake tales, etc. from other car nuts. Magnesium is combustable, that's the only reason I mentioned it.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Believe it or not a good swift shot with a brass hammer will shock the threads and cause any rust or loctite a that is holding the stud in place. A touch of heat and you win. In twenty five years I have never seen an unbroken stud that would not come out with impact and heat.

markwemple · 05-19-2004, 02:17 PM

Spent a lot of time hitting them with a framing hammer at the same time they were being heated! These buggers are simply stubborn!

afterburn 549 · 05-22-2004, 06:21 PM

Yea....try to set one on fire, this seperates the those who repeat rumors from those who been there....I guarntee it will not catch!

sayah · 05-23-2004, 03:08 AM

Why is everyone so intent on getting these studs out? My case (mag) had all there studs firmly in place when I did my rebuild. It seemed just plain foolish to remove them at all! The rebuild was not effecded in any way by not removing and replacing them, with or without case inserts. How is it that this mantra of religiousl removing and reinstall these studs got started. My rebuild is almost complete and EVERYTHING is going back in place without any interference in any of the parts. The case didn't require extensive maching since I measured anc checked everything.

Just my thoughts since reading here no one has voiced any opposition to this "always remove the head studs".

jgparker · jgparker's Garage

Sayah,

Only time will tell if you pull a head stud in the next 1000 miles. The odds are just to high that they will after the engine has been disturbed in a rebuild. You might be OK, but the repercussions are rather high if they do pull.

JP

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by sayah
Why is everyone so intent on getting these studs out? My case (mag) had all there studs firmly in place when I did my rebuild. It seemed just plain foolish to remove them at all! The rebuild was not effecded in any way by not removing and replacing them, with or without case inserts. How is it that this mantra of religiousl removing and reinstall these studs got started. My rebuild is almost complete and EVERYTHING is going back in place without any interference in any of the parts. The case didn't require extensive maching since I measured anc checked everything.

Just my thoughts since reading here no one has voiced any opposition to this "always remove the head studs".

Out of curiousity, what year was the motor and have you put the crank back in the motor yet (and does it spin easily)?
thanks,
Chris

afterburn 549 · 05-23-2004, 11:52 AM

The only reason is pc. of mind. Alot ezer on the bench then in the car (which means back to the bench)

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by sayah
Why is everyone so intent on getting these studs out? My case (mag) had all there studs firmly in place when I did my rebuild. It seemed just plain foolish to remove them at all! The rebuild was not effecded in any way by not removing and replacing them, with or without case inserts. How is it that this mantra of religiousl removing and reinstall these studs got started. My rebuild is almost complete and EVERYTHING is going back in place without any interference in any of the parts. The case didn't require extensive maching since I measured anc checked everything.

Just my thoughts since reading here no one has voiced any opposition to this "always remove the head studs".

If you're case is a 2.7, and it doesn't have case savers, or time-certs, I'd say there's a near 100% chance that your head studs will pull within the first 1000 or so miles.

You might want to get a copy of my book: http://www.101projects.com. - all of the reasons why you should replace your head studs (or reinforce them, as is the case with the magnesium blocks) are detailed in there.

Your statement is akin to saying "why shouldn't I wear a seat belt? I don't feel like I'm flying out of my car through the windshield right now?"

-Wayne

sayah · 05-24-2004, 03:02 AM

Chris, the engine is a 69E. Not only does the crankshaft turn over easily but case halves went together perfectly, the heads bolted up without a hitch and the cams have been aligned and were not off at all from what originally was set.

This engine had problems when I first got it (2 blown head gaskets) BUT NOTHING DRAMATIC! ( like most of the problems porsche engines are reported to suffer from). In addition the previouly rebuild omitted the o-rings on all the case through studs.

My advise is:

1. Do an autopsy on your present engine. Don't just blindly replace everything if it is in spec and never, never just replace head studs if they are firmly in place and seem OK. Don't maching case halves unless they need it. Don't mess with things that work.