do I need to hone this?

Jeff Alton · 05-18-2004, 08:18 PM

Does this nicasil cylinder need to be honed to have rings seat?
Cross hatch is still clearly visible.

Thanks, Jeff

Rot 911 · 05-19-2004, 05:27 AM

I did. I used a flex hone on mine. About 3-4 passes on each cylinder. Now have about 1500 miles on the rebuild and so far using NO oil! Here is a picture of one of my cylinders during the tear down and you can see that it look identical to yours. My concern was that the cylinder wall was too slick looking and the rings wouldn't seat. Flex honing gave the walls a much duller look.

Jeff Alton · 05-19-2004, 06:06 AM

Thanks, I think I will send them out to a place here that has diamond hones and see what they think.

Cheers, Jeff

nreed · nreed's Garage

My 3.3's looked the same after 100K miles. I measured the clearances and they were only half way to the clearance tolerance. I am sending them to be honed just to be sure.

Rot 911 · 05-19-2004, 06:47 AM

Why not just buy the flex hone for $50, chuck it up in a drill and do it yourself?

Jeff Alton · 05-19-2004, 06:53 AM

good Question?!?

nreed · nreed's Garage

Actually I have a grape hone but was kind of unsure whether to use it or not. If I use it, would I just pull it through a couple of times? I don't want to damage the cylinder walls.

Rot 911 · 05-19-2004, 07:28 AM

Yes just lube the cylinder walls up with some 20w50 (actually and motor oil will work just fine) Use a drill with about a 500-700 rpm speed and move it up and down in the cylinder 3-4 times making sure you push about a third of the hone out past the bottom of the cylinder and up through the top of the cylinder to make sure you hone all of the cylinder. Not much danger of hurting the cylinder walls with the flex hone (what you call the grape hone) that is why Wayne and others recommend its use. It really doesn't "hone" the cylinder like the hones that use the 3 honing stones do. It just scuffs it up a bit.

nreed · nreed's Garage

Kurt V...Thanks for the encouragement

mwildt · 05-19-2004, 08:42 AM

Hi,

Could you post a picture of before/after honing ? for us novices could be interestig to see the difference. Maybe even the 'flex' hone.

Thanks,
Michael

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

It has been our experience that if you hone Nicasil cylinders the hone cuts into the Nicasil and because it is so hard that the new ridges are too abrasive on the rings. The rings will seat but they will not last as long as they would if the cylinders are prepped properly. We have had great results from Scotch Brite with soap and water. This breaks the glaze but doesn't cut the Nicasil. Don't forget to check for roundness. I've seen Porsche cylinders .004 out of round.
P.S. use only Goetze rings. Hastings in a pinch.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

As I state on page 55 of the Engine Rebuild Book, "You should only have an expert familiar with the Nikasil cylinders perform the honing process."

-Wayne

Porsche_monkey · 05-21-2004, 04:00 AM

Why hone if the cylinder walls are not glazed?

afterburn 549 · 05-22-2004, 06:14 PM

Sometimes you guys scare me!....I wont flame you, but I wish you had asked the Q. b4 you did it!!! So next time just dont

Jeff Alton · 05-24-2004, 09:18 AM

Afterburn, is your post directed at me? If it is, I am not sure I understand.

Jeff

afterburn 549 · 05-24-2004, 04:14 PM

It is directed to anyone that would break out a nasty hone on that Gourgous cyl!.......please don't

Jeff Alton · 05-24-2004, 08:44 PM

Very well, thanks.

Jeff

afterburn 549 · 05-24-2004, 08:52 PM

The wall on that is SOoo thin.....you go thue to the aluminum in a hurry!

dhoward · dhoward's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by afterburn 549
The wall on that is SOoo thin.....you go thue to the aluminum in a hurry!

NOT WITH A GRAPE HONE!!!
A grape hone is not hard enough to remove Nikasil, unless the cyl has been gouged and the coating is already flaking....

Or, just Scotch-Brite it as someone else mentioned.

Rot 911 · 05-25-2004, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by afterburn 549
Sometimes you guys scare me!....I wont flame you, but I wish you had asked the Q. b4 you did it!!! So next time just dont

I did ask on this board (engine rebuilding) prior to using the grape hone and the responses were that a grape hone (flex hone) is not a true hone and is not hard enough to cut through the nikasil, but is sufficient to remove the glaze. My concern with my cylinders were that even though I could see the factory hone marks, the cylinders were too smooth and the rings would never seat. I now have 2000 miles on my rebuild and burning no oil at all. Where do you get the information that using the grape hone would damage nikasil cylinders??????