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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Silver Spring, MD 20904
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Convert a 3.6 to a Turbo?

Say, you wanted to build a bad-a$$ turbo car. Would an early 964 3.6 (w/ the leaky head/cyl design) make the best core? They are cheap than the late 3.6 - (esp if they have leaking cyls). They already have twin plug heads & a big aluminum plenum w/ EFI that looks like it would be easy to pressurize. Since the heads are smooth it seems they would be easier to flame-ring.

My first crack at a build sheet:
early 964 (w/ stock single mass flywheel?)
LN eng 100mm cyls (or can the stock ones be used if they aren't damaged)
J&Es (what C:R?)
ARP/raceware rod & head studs
upgraded valvetrain (upgraded springs, Ti retainers, cams, STOCK valves?)
stock plenum
stock porting on heads (is more needed?)
custom turbo, plumbing, intercooler, etc.
aftermarket EFI

Will the 964 crank handle it (I hear a 993 unit is stiffer)? What else needs to be upgraded? Aftermarket rods a must? Will a huge intercooler fit atop the 964 intake?

What kind of power levels are attainable (I know, a bad Q to ask). Is 500+hp a realistic goal and still have a wide power band? More? Less? Im really just interested in something that has SILLY fun levels of smooth tractable power.

I did a search and found little info (beepbeep did post in a good thread last year).

Jeez, My first project isn't completed and Im already thinking of the next one...
SMD
Old 05-23-2005, 11:42 AM
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First, if your looking at building a turbo motor you need some reading material; I suggest "maximum boost" by Corky Bell. Lots of turbo info, not porsche specific though. C/R should stay around 8-8.5:1. TI retainers will help control valve float if over-revved. I would port the intake, not exhuast, you want velocity there. I think 500HP would be doable at 1bar; assuming all else is done properly(intercooling, efi, oil cooling) Where in SS are you, I grew up not far from there, burtonsville.
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Old 05-23-2005, 06:23 PM
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send KNIGHTRACE a PM or search for old posts of his. He is getting pretty crazy horspower out of what sound like straightforward 3.6 turbo conversions.
Old 05-23-2005, 08:51 PM
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the 964 is the base engine you will want. How much hp do you want? I can put you in contact with the best of the best that can get you where you want to be. Let me know any questions you have

Eric Hood
Old 05-23-2005, 09:35 PM
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I would have the crank balanced, checked for straightness and cross drilled and chamfered. Depending on hp I would stick with stock rods and go with ARP rod bolts unless you want huge hp then I would upgrade to a Pauter rod. I would not go with the 100mm cylinders. I would go with the 3.8 cylinders from Charles and coated JE's in the 8-1 or 8.5 to 1 range. I would have the heads welded up and then flame ringed. I would use my head guy. He does the fastest porsches in the world. The 964 heads do not require a bunch of work to flow a ton. Good coated springs and titanium retainers will get you there along with a nice set of valves in the SS variety. Custom cams through John at dr cams will be your best bet. Go with a set of custom headers from Marco at Billet design in either twin or single turbo version your pick. His twin turbo headers make huge hp over the others out there. As for the intake I would go with a plastic 964 intake with a custom center section housing a 75-90mm throttle body depending on hp. Throw on a big intercooler that Marco can also make along with a nice EFI system and you have the platform for something in the 1K hp range depending on how much boost you want Now that is one good recipe
Old 05-23-2005, 09:44 PM
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Don, I've already ordered the Bell book. I put EBS springs and Ti retainers in my NA motor - they are good insurance. (Im near Old Columbia Pike/Randolph - actually closer to Burtonsville than SS.)

Shuie, tnx. I do a search on his name.

Eric,
* How much hp do I want? Well, I dunno I've driven 300hp NA 911s (but never a turbo) and 450+hp C5. So, Im guessing anything <500hp just isn't worth it. 600 maybe? 700 starts to seem like "too much" to be driveable
*Why SS valves (I was advised against them in my NA build).
*Why the plastic 964 intakes - do they flow THAT much better (and no worries about splitting them? I guess if they can survive 1 bar vaccuum they can handle 1+ bar pressure) Would it be better to do TWM type ITBs and fab a centerfed IC like I think I've seen on some 935 and 962s?
*Do the early 964 heads need to be welded up to be flame ringed or just the later ones w/ the gasket? (one of the reasons I thought the early 3.6 would be a better donor)
*If the stock cyls were toast I guess it makes sense to go 3.8. Lightly ported heads - check. Cams from John - check.
I have pretty serious fab skills and should be able to handle the intercooler and exhaust (after looking at what others do), after all, thats the fun part

Thanks!
SMD
Old 05-24-2005, 06:53 AM
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It's been done before and it's a very sound engine to begin with. much better than 3.3 930 engine.

You'll need beefier rods, pistons and cams to begin with.

C/R of 8.0 for high boost or 8.5 for less boost and more response.

How many ponies? 500-900 if done right depending on choice of turbochargers/boost/cams etc.

Crank can handle it, so will heads etc. Best bang for buck is keeping everything stock 'xept pistons, rods and EFI/induction. Turbo engines don't mind little milder cams as they make tons of middle-range torque...so stock cams are good start. 0.8 bar of boost on 3.6 engine is lot's of power with good reliability. Oil scavenge migh be the problem if you use dual turbos with high oil-flow.




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Last edited by beepbeep; 05-24-2005 at 07:54 AM..
Old 05-24-2005, 07:47 AM
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You will want to use the newer plastic intake or at least the newer center section/throttle body. The older center section has an odd oval shaped throttle body boot that will not stand up to any boost.

I have a 964 single tubo conversion with 3.8 liter 8.5:1 cylinders, ARP rod bolts and studs. I run 1 bar of boost. I'm really happy with this car!

If I were to do it over again I would do a twin BB turbo and strive for more low-end boost.

Vroom!

-doug
Old 05-24-2005, 09:15 AM
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Hey guys. Check out the video on my web site . The one from the Roebling road race. This in car film is from a 3.6 turbo that was built up as a 3.8, single turbo. The engine has twin injectors per cylinder as well as twin plugs. You can e-mail me persona;;y for the details.
Turn up the volume...
www.rudtnersracing.com.
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Old 05-24-2005, 04:56 PM
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Man, that gave me goose bumps!

-doug
Old 05-24-2005, 06:20 PM
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the plastic intake flows about 12% more than the aluminum one. It is ligher and does not heat up like the aluminum brother. The plastic will hold up fine. It has been prooven in several cars. I know of one that made almost 900rwhp with it. I have a plastic intake on my car that has been covered in kevlar for extra strength and heat reasons. Do not use the factory center section. Go with an aluminum center section with a mustang throttle body on it. The stock rods are very strong if you put good rod bolts in them. I have a few friends who are running stock rods and are in the 8-900hp range with no failure after long term use. As for flame ringing etc things like this add extra money, but when you turn up the boost...and you will when 6-700hp starts feeling slow you will be glad you built the engine to "grow"

Eric
Old 05-24-2005, 09:15 PM
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