Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
PRO Motorsports
 
Tyson Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 4,369
Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
[BRebuilt MFI 200 hp? $2500-$3000 tractor parts but so cool

Tractor parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????? ??????????????


I'll pretend I didn't read that.

__________________
'69 911E coupe' 2.7E MFI (retired 911-Spec racer)
'72 911T Targa (currently being re-Targa'd)
2004 GT3
Old 11-03-2005, 05:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 219
Garage
Matt,

I haven't given this any thought yet - I wasn't really intending to deal with it until the new year.

The biggest problem with building a quick road engine is knowing just how far to go and thus how much to spend!

For an all out competition engine it's no problem - you just do and spend whatever it takes to get the strongest, quickest engine you can.

With a more or less standard road engine, there's not much to do other than put it together with good standard parts within spec.

I'm sure you know 2.7s have a number of issues that need to be addressed to get reliability once you extract good power. This costs $$$ to do. If it were me and the goal was a quick road car, I'd be tempted to find a good 3.2 Carrera engine and sell the 2.7. But that's me... If you abosultely MUST go the 2.7 route, email me or give me a call - gratuitous advice is never in short supply


My email is mark@penguinsystems.com.au

mob is 0410 559 395
__________________
914/6 GT (Repro) Tarmac Rally car
928 S4 - 1989
911SC - 1980
944 TURBO - 1986
944 S2 - 1990
Old 11-03-2005, 06:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Eye of the Toiger
 
matty74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,204
Garage
I would'nt call the 917 a tractor, MFI kicks ass, I just can't afford it right now
__________________
http://www.aircooled.com.au

1973 911 RSR clone powered by 77 3.0 turbo
Old 11-03-2005, 06:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Eye of the Toiger
 
matty74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,204
Garage
You sound like my mates, get a 3.2 carrera, but I love the 2.7, I love MFI, and s cams. The early 70s was a special time for Porsche, cause I was just a kid when this model came out and my mates mum had a new 911s in 74 and that's when I got the porsche bug at the age of 5.

Owning an early 70s 2.7 is like living with a difficult woman, but she does it for you.
__________________
http://www.aircooled.com.au

1973 911 RSR clone powered by 77 3.0 turbo
Old 11-03-2005, 06:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,232
Henry is refering to the origins of MFI. This system is based on the diesel systems found on tractor engines years ago. It's much more sophisticated due to having to keep the mixture right on a gas engine but it's based on early diesel systems and I believe originated in WWII on the ME109 fighter (not a deisel).

-Andy

PS. The other EFI systems (non-motec) weren't included in Henry's comparison because they won't produce the power that the options he listed will. You have to have the separate throttles and straight intakes that Carbs/MFI/Motec provide.
__________________
72 Carrera RS replica, Spec 911 racer
Old 11-03-2005, 07:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Eye of the Toiger
 
matty74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,204
Garage
whats the Diff between weber 40IDs3 and 40IDA

what the diff between these carbs in terms of cost and performance?

40ID3SC

and

40IDA
__________________
http://www.aircooled.com.au

1973 911 RSR clone powered by 77 3.0 turbo
Old 11-14-2005, 12:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
degreeoff1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 441
Hey I know !!!

Just bought a set of IDS carbs....an extra fuel enrichment do hicki (venturi??) will enhance high RPM performance

Am I right teach???

LMAO 914-4 to 6 er
__________________
1972 914-6 in the works.....
2003 Ford E-250 "work horse"
2004 Yamaha V-star Classic 1100 "early mid life crisis"
2005 Scion XB "Gas sipping"
1978 Siedelmann S25 "Ataraxia"
Old 11-14-2005, 01:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Moderator
 
304065's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,502
No, the extra enrichment circuit does nothing for increased peformance, it's there for safety only. Once you are at the optimum fuel/air ratio at high rpm, more fuel doesn't help.
__________________
'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen
Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13)
Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02)
Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04)
Old 11-14-2005, 01:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 5,966
Garage
It was designed to prevent detonation in high compression engines. It did not work!!!!!!
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net
Old 11-14-2005, 01:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
degreeoff1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 441
is this to say that the set I just bought are not worth a damn over IDA's??

Shucks
Josh

Not to hijack the thread but I am a newbie to 911 ville
__________________
1972 914-6 in the works.....
2003 Ford E-250 "work horse"
2004 Yamaha V-star Classic 1100 "early mid life crisis"
2005 Scion XB "Gas sipping"
1978 Siedelmann S25 "Ataraxia"
Old 11-14-2005, 03:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 5,966
Garage
No, they are worth a great deal to a concours gismo that cares more about how it looks than how it works.
The enrichment circuit can be sealed so the carbs will function properly.
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net
Old 11-14-2005, 03:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
degreeoff1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 441
Will this be a detriment to performance or just gas economy?? These were just rebuilt to include shaft seals?

Thanks again
Josh
__________________
1972 914-6 in the works.....
2003 Ford E-250 "work horse"
2004 Yamaha V-star Classic 1100 "early mid life crisis"
2005 Scion XB "Gas sipping"
1978 Siedelmann S25 "Ataraxia"
Old 11-14-2005, 07:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
Eye of the Toiger
 
matty74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,204
Garage
Can I take a 2.4 MFI system and bolt it on a 2.7 to replace the CIS?

If so what mods need to be done?
__________________
http://www.aircooled.com.au

1973 911 RSR clone powered by 77 3.0 turbo
Old 11-15-2005, 04:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
356RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 2,108
Garage
2.4 MFI on a 2.7 CIS

Yes....but you will or should replace:

Cams w/mfi drive gear, T, E, S or more
Pistons with 8.5comp or more
Heads must be mod. for mfi injectors

I know I forgot something...

Mark
__________________
Mark Jung
Bend, OR
MFI Werks.com
Old 11-15-2005, 05:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
D Troop 3/5 Air cav,162
 
afterburn 549's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Army, Retrograded
Posts: 12,750
SDS can sell a whole sys for about 3 gs.....supposed to be ez to tune and very adaptable...(double plug, turbo or what ever)...no need for a lap top I am told, or many trips to the dyno....personally I would do a sys like that rather then carbs .Carbs were great in their day,that day is gone
Old 11-15-2005, 09:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
How is an MFI more expensive? A'm I missing something? [/B]
I haven't really seen any rebuilt 2.7 MFI systems go for less than $5-6K lately...

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 11-16-2005, 09:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 5,966
Garage
Wanye, it seems we're bumping heads again.

Although an 019 pump is hard to find and conversion pump works as good or better. (you can calibrate the conv. to specific needs while you're converting).
As for the whole system we (Supertec) have been known to sell custom built systems for under $3000.

That is about the same as PMOs and cheaper than most quality EFI systems that are capable of the same performance.

And what EFI system looks like this?

__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net

Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 11-17-2005 at 07:22 AM..
Old 11-17-2005, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Huntington NY
Posts: 139
As for carbs being dead, ever hear a current Trans-Am motor run or see how much power an unrestrcted Nextel cup V8 makes? (850+ hp at over 9000rpm). A properly tuned carb setup can have better mixture atomization than most fuel injection systems. The carbs suffer at lower rpm due to the fact that the engine must draw the fuel from the carb. Above this critical point the carbs are quite good. The mfi system has a high pressure nozzle that chatters when metering fuel this atomizes the fuel better than any efi nozzle. Even with this Porsche in many of their racing engines placed the nozzles at almost the top of the intake stacks in order to help mix the fuel and air.
Old 11-17-2005, 08:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Porschekid962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: pasadena/novato
Posts: 1,510
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Porschekid962 Send a message via Yahoo to Porschekid962
All this back and forth and Henry teasing with those pictures oh god. Has ANYONE ever taken a motor, who cares about displacement but after run in swapped from carbs, to mfi and to efi to "see" some real HP difference on a dyno? I think there would be enough resources between all the ppl on this forum to where we could make this happen. Blueprint a 3.0 or something like that, use S cams, decent CR, single or twin plug, then to back to back tests swapping intake systems.

That I would like to see, until then we can all love what we love and for our own strange reasons.

Ryder
__________________
74 911s neverending story. two feet and a jetta for now.
Old 11-17-2005, 08:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
Try not, Do or Do not
 
Henry Schmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Fallbrook, Ca. 92028
Posts: 5,966
Garage
As I see it, everyone has a favorite way of doing things. If you have a plan, research the options and choose that system that best fits your needs.

All the systems talked about here will work and will work well.
That said, all systems have limitations and compromises. Choose the one that compromises in places you least care about.
For instance if fuel mileage is important to you, CIS & EFI systems tend to offer better fuel mileage

Building these car/engines offers tremendous enjoyment and very hard to justify, so build what will make you smile.
__________________
Henry Schmidt
SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE
Ph: 760-728-3062
Email: supertec1@earthlink.net
Old 11-18-2005, 06:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:30 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.