3.4 has begun! (part 1) - Page 7

Jeff Alton · 06-17-2006, 09:43 PM

Okay, did a little mocking up today with the throttles. Need to trim the shround here and there to clear the manifolds. Getting a little bit done every day.

Also finished up the brake plumbing today and put the car back down on the ground for the first time in 9 months!!!

Cheers

kirkf · 08-01-2006, 02:39 PM

Updates?

Kirk

Jeff Alton · 08-01-2006, 03:26 PM

Should have some more pics later this week, been too busy to do much on it lately!

Cheers

kirkf · 08-03-2006, 06:23 AM

Jeff,

Well feel free to write up some stuff on those ITBs. I am curious what size / model Jenveys you bought, which injectors you are using, etc.

Did jenvey have something premade for the porsche to handle the throttle cable?

Were they lots of $$?

How did you figure out the cam characteristics to handle them?

What about the MAP sensor? How are you handling that? Are you going to have a common manifold they all feed into?

I'm sure there are lots of us who would be happy to see you write up a small novel on what you've come up with!

Kirk

CruiseControl · 08-03-2006, 06:15 PM

Jeff

Notice that you have all the Air Cond Compressor brackets fitted. Does the compressor foul No4 cyl throttle body. Have you checked this, or how did you get around retaining the A/C.

Engine is 3.2 to 3.4L. I am using local made throttle bodies 50m butterfly reducing to 43mm ports, each side a one piece parallel cast. Using 803 injectors (sequential) with MoTeC M600 brain, DC24 cams, etc, etc.

Paul

Jeff Alton · 08-03-2006, 07:20 PM

The pic of the motor with the AC is not mine... I will update some pics tonight with the throttles on the motor. Finally got that done today!

Cheers

Jeff Alton · 08-03-2006, 10:06 PM

Kirk, I will atttempt to answer some questions...... (wish me luck)

I am curious what size / model Jenveys you bought, which injectors you are using, etc

These are 48mm straight (not tapered) throttle. We tapered the manifold to match both the intake port and the base of the throttle. I have not decided yet on the exact injector...

Did jenvey have something premade for the porsche to handle the throttle cable?

Nope, Ryder posted some pics a while back on his thread about how he solved it. I still have not totally figured out what I am going to do here........ This is one part that really kinda is lame considering the $$$ that these things are!

Were they lots of $$?

I guess so!?!

My cost on them is pretty good, but they are not cheap! Depending on how you spec them out plan on anywhere from 2800-4000. (throttles, manifolds, TPS, rails, linkage and filters)

What about the MAP sensor? How are you handling that? Are you going to have a common manifold they all feed into?

Yes, MAP is built into my computer. You can see in the pics that I drilled and tapped each runner for a vacuum fitting. They will all be run together to even out the signal to the computer. I still need to see if I can "tee" some together and only have 2 or 3 lines going to the vacuum manifold (still to be fabricated) or whether I need to run all six individually to the manifold. If I can run each bank together (ie 1 tees with 2 which tees with 3 and then only a single line from there to the vacuum manifold) that would make things a little easier. That way I only need to put 2 lines into the manifold and one out to the computer. Not sure if I can do that, for some reason my head is telling me I can't....

How did you figure out the cam characteristics to handle them?

This was the easy part! I just called up John (camgrinder) and gave him the motor specs and transmission info and where I wanted the power band and he recommended a cam to me. I went with the DC44 on a 108 lobe center. John by the way does great work, he does all my cams so I trust him to give me the straight goods so to speak. I guess it all comes out on the dyno!

Hope that helps a little? I am also going to run two oil temp sensors to see which location gives me the most consitent reading for the computer. One will be in the breather cover and the other in the left chain box cover.

Here are some pics of where it is at today! See the other car in the background? It is just one of the reasons I am so far behind on this project!!!

I tried to take pics that show the linkage and vacuum ports etc. If anyone wants to see anything particular, let me know and I will snap a pic.

Cheers

Jeff Alton · 08-03-2006, 10:10 PM

Paul, those are nice looking throttles. The one peice idea is a good one. I would like to see the injector up a little higher maybe, but they look great!

What is a 803 injector? I am using a microtech (from your fine land) sequential as well!

Cheers

TheMentat · TheMentat's Garage

you, sir, are an animal... I can't wait to hear that motor sing!

CruiseControl · 10:44 PM

Jeff

The "803" injector is Bosch part# 0 280 150 803
390cc/min flow at 2.7 bar, 57HP @ 80% duty (0.52 BSFC), 4.8 ohm impedence.
check web site http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc this provides reasonable data of for injector selection.

The "803" was on the 944 turbo and further listed in the MoTeC manuals. Price for the "803" about 1/3 of the OEM list.

Based upon 7500 rpm an engine cycle time is 16mSec thus 80% duty is 12.8mSec

Following data is from 3.2L mostly standard with MoTeC for fuel and ignition, with SSI, Monty. and the "803" injectors, 98RON

The following logged data from a track day may be of assistance:
Air In temp = 24degC; Oil Temp = 80.4 degC; Fuel Press = 300.4kPa; Fuel Temp = 22.8degC; Barometric pressure about 0.97Bar

edited to improve spacing
T/Pos- RPM- MAP- La -- A/F - Duty% PW On Time
90.1% 5296 0.912 0.897 13.1 40.10 : 9.022mSec
99.4% 5854 0.956 0.863 12.7 46.60 : 9.478mSec
98.4% 4584 0.967 0.849 12.4 34.60 : 9.306mSec

The maximum recorded is 46% duty, and 10.1mSec time on (not at the same time) My understanding is fuelling demand "more so" follows the produced torque curve.

If you want more comprehensive data PM me your email address.

I would think the "803" capable of fuel delivery for 330 to 350 flywheel HP.

Confirm that your EMS is suited for 4.8 ohm injectors. Also consider the "spray patern" of injectors.

Pauledited to improve spacing

Jeff Alton · 08-06-2006, 08:21 PM

Paul, thanks for the link. That is a great table there. Lots of good info!

Cheers

Jeff Alton · 02-05-2007, 10:18 PM

So, 3ish months since I last posted on this. Busy life (single father to 4.5 year old) and a 951 project as well. Made some progress on the car though. I find I spend too much time in the garage scratching my head and not enough time turning wrenches. OH well! Here are some pics of where I am now....

Coils mounted...

.

Here is the Jenvey linkage I fabbed to eliminate their cable linkage...

Jeff Alton · 02-05-2007, 10:22 PM

So, 3ish months since I last posted on this. Busy life (single father to 4.5 year old) and a 951 project as well. Made some progress on the car though. I find I spend too much time in the garage scratching my head and not enough time turning wrenches. OH well! Here are some pics of where I am now....

Coils mounted...

.

Here is the Jenvey linkage I fabbed to eliminate their cable linkage...

And here is the oil breather catch can I mounted (which will be painted shortly).....

The motor side of the wiring harness is done, so I hope to put the motor in the car next weekend! Still be a while until I start the thing (got to fix the leaky seals on the 951 engine oil cooler still

)

Cheers

Facey · Facey's Garage

Those MSD coils look nice.

When i was on the dyno, the guys were saying i'd probably get another 2-4hp with MSD over electromotive....

but then again they are biaset towards ramcharger 413's...lol...

I am very jealous of your well planned build, top to bottom all at once...wish i did mine like that...but nope...

can't wait to see it in person!!!

asphaltgambler · 02-06-2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CruiseControl
Jeff

Notice that you have all the Air Cond Compressor brackets fitted. Does the compressor foul No4 cyl throttle body. Have you checked this, or how did you get around retaining the A/C.

Engine is 3.2 to 3.4L. I am using local made throttle bodies 50m butterfly reducing to 43mm ports, each side a one piece parallel cast. Using 803 injectors (sequential) with MoTeC M600 brain, DC24 cams, etc, etc.

Paul

Paul you can retain A/C by using the shorter body compressor from a 964 app. the brackets are the same as the earlier 3.2 stuff.

Long Nose · 02-06-2007, 08:59 AM

Wow - cool build!!! That's one of the nicest looking motors I have seen!!!

It's nice to know there is someone nearby with such talent!!! I would like to get together and pick your brains about local shops, etc, and get in line for a ride when it's all done!!!

Jeff Alton · 02-06-2007, 09:55 AM

March 1st is the first "garage and beer night" at my place for the local crowd. You are more than welcome to attend. Beer is on me. You can email me using the link by User ID and I can give you the details. You are welcome to come by anytime to chat.

Cheers

kirkf · 02-09-2007, 06:19 AM

Wish I was a little closer, I would love to drop by and check out your progress!

Kirk

Jeff Alton · 03-30-2007, 08:15 PM

So, nearly two months later it almost ready to go in. Pulled it off the stand tonight, put the trans on and the starter. Just got to pull the bumper tomorrow and in she goes........

Cheers

88-diamondblue · 03-30-2007, 08:56 PM

Jeff,

That's sweet, can't wait to see what the dyno shows. Doesn't look like it will be long before you will be enjoying the power.