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Jeff Alton's Avatar
 
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3.4 has begun! (part 1)

Finally got the old 3.2 torn down tonight. It is a bunch of pieces in labelled bags now! I am going to do my best to photo document my progress and please feel free to critique my work!

I pulled apart a perfectly running, leak free 3.2 that had a top end (that I did) about 20,000 miles ago. Why? Good question! I am on the quest for more power!

Here are the basic specs.

JE 98mm 10.5 pistons
Bored and plated 98 cylinders
Twin plug heads
Race springs (Ti retainers)
DC44 cams
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
Crankfire igintion
46 PMO carbs
1 5/8 B&B headers with heat

Thanks to John (camgrinder) again for helping me out (too many times to count) And to Steve Weiner, who has guided me through more than one rebuild and always takes great care of me and my customers! Both of these guys are top notch!

Now, a couple of questions. Like I said earlier, I tore down what now apears to be a perfectly goof bottom end, everything looks like new. (measuring will bear this out one way or the other). But, I broke a head stud off about 3/8 of an inch above the case! I was due for some head stud problems as I have been averaging about 45 minutes to remove 24 studs. Well tonight I broke the last one that I had to remove. Nuts!

So, I have a good drill press here, but is drilling this thing out something I should do on my own or should I just send it off to the machine shop??

Last question for tonight! Anyone here use Carillo or Pauter Rods? If so, what made you chose one over the other? What advantage do they offer over factory rods?? Still may be pursuaded to spend some more money on rods.....

Cheers!
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Old 02-18-2006, 11:43 PM
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Hi Jeff,

Take the head to Lance. He can get that stud out properly on his milling machine etc. which is much more stable than a drill press. He has the jigs to hold the head down nice and square.

He got out a broke-out-flush intake bolt on my 993 heads, did a nice job and did not touch the threads....

Cheers,

Mike
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Old 02-19-2006, 12:36 AM
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Jeff, your ending up the the exact same engine (short block) Im working on but your going with carbs and Im keeping my stock intake, I am going to be very interested in how this works out because I wanted carbs but could not swing the cost just yet, but could update down the road? right!! Who is doing your cylinders?
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Twinplug, head work, case savers, rockers arms, etc.
Old 02-19-2006, 05:23 AM
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Thanks guys. I got he cylinders from EBS. I have had most of the parts since late last summer, just finally getting some time to get to it!

Cheers
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:08 AM
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Finally!

After all the hemming & hawing about what to do, it's great to see you embark on the project.

We should soon see a couple of nice 3.4L motors in different guises with CGARR's and yours.

Since your bottom end builds will be similar, it will be interesting to note what the power/torque & driveability differences will be between a modified Motronic intake with mild cams and one with carbs with a more radical grind.

What are both of you guys doing for exhaust systems?

Ralph
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:25 AM
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Im running B&B headers with 2 out muffler, I think the same as Jeff?
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Craig
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:31 AM
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Wow, what timing. I am starting my 3.4L rebuild. It will take a while to get the funds for some of the items. I get my case and crank back next week. Then get the cyls bored and replated and get some JE's. Then save money for the head work - including cam regrind. I am not sure about twin plugging... I go back and forth on this issue.
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Old 02-19-2006, 07:48 AM
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tfor the broken stud i would try welding a nut to the remaining bit of stud then getting the case real hot inside the spigot area where the thread will be. dont worry about the heat on the case as the case will act like a huge heat sink and suck the heat away. once you have killed the loctite in the thread it should back out
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1980 SC soon to be big hp 3.3t powered 73RSR Replica (well, I'm keeping the engine but everything else is going )
Old 02-19-2006, 09:34 AM
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Update time! So, the P/C set measures out with zero taper and not out of round. The P/C clearance is excactly .0015" which is what JE tells me it should be. Rods are now resized and crank is getting polished. New race springs with Ti retainers from camgrinder are hear as is the complete new set of valves (even though the old ones were all in spec). Heads off to my favourite head builder on tuesday for twin plugging. Cams on new billets and rockers being ground and rebushed by camgrinder as we speak. That is the end of the good news!

I tried welding a nut on the very little remaing length of the broken stud but could not get good penetration so that little trick did not work. Sent the case half to a friend of a friend who has a mill and said "no problem getting that out" Ya right! Called me up and said "come get this before I wreck it anymore!" There appears to be a broken bit in the hole and it looks like they were drilling if for an insert and the hole ended up slightly oblong and that is when they stopped...... So the case goes off to another shop on monday afternoon, where I should have sent it in the first place, to see if they can fix it. It looks to me like it will need some welding to reduce the hole size and either re-tapped the original size or for an insert. In the mean time I lined up another case to buy if this one can't be reliably prepared! Live and learn I guess! I would have drilled the darn thing out on my drill press and probably not done any worse job, but that is the way it goes.....

Depending on when I get the case back (if it can be repaired) bottom end assembly should start in about 1 week or so.

This is giving my time to finish up the chassis welding (coilover reinforcements), weld in the roll bar, fab up the hydraulic park brake (long story) fab and weld in the front strut brace, re-wire the heating circuit (another long story) and design and build my new fresh air system! Thankfully I have lots to do to keep me overly busy!

Kinda bummed about the case but I should find out tomorrow if it can be fixed even though I am preppared to spend the $$ for another one!

Cheers
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Old 02-26-2006, 03:58 PM
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Jeff:

Whenever I get a stubborn stud that will not come out, or has broken flush with the case, I resort to getting it EDM'ed out. This is not cheap, but FAR less money than a new or good used case.

The real issue on this subject is really knowing when to cut your losses and use the available technology to save a very expensive part.
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Old 02-26-2006, 05:37 PM
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I agree! I tusted someone to do it who was not up to the task! Live and learn!

Cheers
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Old 02-26-2006, 06:22 PM
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Okay, finally getting going on this one now!! I know, what the hell takes me so long?? It is a long story that includes having to get the case fixed (a thread unto itself someday), waiting for machining, working on other parts of the car (it is completely disassembled) working on other's cars, building the parts side of my business, being a single father, holding down my career at 48hrs a week, well you get the idea!!

So, the rods were balanced for overall weight and end for end. Took a while but rigged up a method using the crank and the pins that I think is accurate. They were very close to begin with. They had the big ends resized and the they were rebushed. I also have measured the pistons, one is light by one gram, but I don't think I am going to bring the others down to meet it, or should I??

I assembled the rods to the crank using ARP rod bolts And measured the torque (stretch) using the ARP stretch gauge. Thanks to Mike J who gave me a geat price on the gauge after he was done with it on his 993 rebuild (check out his latest thread on the rebuild, very well done) It is and interesting tool. The bolts took a fair bit more torque than if I would have used the "torque method". Interesting, although this is consistent with what others have found.

Yes, I assembled them in the kitchen. It is the most spotless part of the house, plus the LCD tv is right there with the game on and the beer fridge is only two steps from the assemble area. I know, I am shopping for a fridge for the garage!

Final cleaning of the boat tailed case is tomorrow morning and then the bottom end gets put together on Wed or Thurs if I get the tranny off the stand....

Here are the pics so far...



I set the stretch at .012, right in th middle of the spec.



And Ralph, this one is for you buddy (taking a break from the GI and going with the old stand by )



More to come, cheers
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by catca
And Ralph, this one is for you buddy (taking a break from the GI and going with the old stand by )



More to come, cheers
Way to go Jeff, hopefully you can take me for a ride when I come up in late July, eh? It would be one e-ticket ride before I board the rickety old plane up to Masset for the other...

If I were you, I would have left the tv off last night.

I think tee times are being filled up at Hazelmere as we speak...

Ralph
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:26 AM
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Truth be told I only watched part of that umm game. Yep I am pretty sure the boys are cleaning their clubs now and getting fitted for new shoes!!

Hopefully I am on the road when you get here....

The PCO fleet is changing, they only have the 2 Shorts 360's now and have picked up some new Saabs.......... Might now be that scary after all!

Cheers
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:29 AM
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Jeff,
I've used a machinist's product called "Tap Out" to remove difficult broken steel fasteners from aluminum parts. It is an acid that dissolves ferrous metal but does not attack the aluminum. You form a small dam around the part with modeling clay and fill it with Tap Out. after a couple days the stud will be eaten down to the point that you can pluck it out with tweezers. After that the hole is flushed with a neutralizing solution and you are done. It works best (fastest) if you are able to drill through the center of the stud first, but given enough time will dissolve it without this step. It absolutely will not damage the aluminum.
regards,
Phil
Old 04-11-2006, 11:29 AM
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That is good info, had never heard of that stuff before. Sounds interesting enough for an experiment or two!

Thanks
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tctnd
Jeff,
I've used a machinist's product called "Tap Out" to remove difficult broken steel fasteners from aluminum parts. It is an acid that dissolves ferrous metal but does not attack the aluminum. You form a small dam around the part with modeling clay and fill it with Tap Out. after a couple days the stud will be eaten down to the point that you can pluck it out with tweezers. After that the hole is flushed with a neutralizing solution and you are done. It works best (fastest) if you are able to drill through the center of the stud first, but given enough time will dissolve it without this step. It absolutely will not damage the aluminum.
regards,
Phil
I've never heard it of it either. A Google search didn't turn it up either. Where do you get it or who makes it?
-Chris
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:08 PM
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I had a motor similar to yours built last year by Henry @ Supertec. We went with DC80 cams, and (I think) 1 3/4" headers. I used a Flowmaster 2 in/2out. I haven't dynoed it yet. It should be in the 300-320 hp range.
Harold
'75 Carrera RS look
Old 04-11-2006, 04:15 PM
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The Tap Out I have was purchased locally 15-20 years ago but evidently was made by "Bee Line Products" (one of the nation's great industrial conglomerates) at PO Box 186, Magalia, Ca 95954. I give it about a 10% chance of still existing but you can try if so inclined. A bit of web searching suggests that concentrated nitric acid can be employed in the same way. Apparently the aluminum is protected by a layer of aluminum oxide but if dilute acid is used it dissolves the oxide and then the base metal beneath. If anyone wants to try this please take proper precautions; nitric acid is a genuinely dangerous substance,
and try it on a sample before commiting a valuable part to the procedure. Alternatively, if you are planning to spend a week in Santa Cruz, bring it over and I'll disolve it with what might be the last "Tap Out" on earth.
regards,
Phil
Old 04-11-2006, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gumba
I had a motor similar to yours built last year by Henry @ Supertec. We went with DC80 cams, and (I think) 1 3/4" headers. I used a Flowmaster 2 in/2out. I haven't dynoed it yet. It should be in the 300-320 hp range.
Harold
'75 Carrera RS look
Looks good, I went with the 44 cam mostly due to the smaller headers. I wanted to keep it torquey in the lower ranges as well. Hopefully it works out well. Is that an HPV-1 ignition? 46mm webers I take it?

Cheers
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:10 PM
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