3.0 to 3.2 upgrade

[henry959]

hi

has anyone done an upgrade from 1978-1983 3.0 engine into 3.2?
if so... how did that work out? how much power did you get at the end... and what other modification was done?

any negatives came out of it?

please let me know



thanks

[cnavarro]

You have lots of options and yes, it's a popular upgrade. Do a search for 98mm as well as 3.4 (it's the same cylinder upgrade from 95mm to 98mm that is also very popular for the 3.2 guys and for the 3.3 turbos, which go from 97mm to 98mm). You might want to check out our hosts engine rebuilding book for more information.

[Porschekid962]

This has been done and covered more than you think. Use the search feature and you will be able to read about this for days. The end power is dependant upon the sum of modifications done. What year 3.0 are you starting with? Some heads were not created equally... It's not worth it to just slap in new pistons and cylinders and not think about intake, exhaust, cams, port work, ignition and fueling. These rebuilds start off innocently enough but end up over the top most of the time.

Case in point, my dad's motor that I built. Original plan was higher comp pistons, hotter cams and maybe carbs. Ended up with 100mm pistons and cylinders, hot cams, ITB's, EFI, lots of machine work, new transmission and the list just goes on.

Before you think about bumping displacement set yourself a REAL budget if your doing it yourself. If you want power for your money think backdating exhaust, carbs and cams. Then higher comp pistons, twin plug and port work, if that isnt enough then bump the displacement. If you are dealing with a car that has to deal with smog then displacement and cams is the way to go. Best of luck and do some searching about the displacement bumps, there are plenty of options if you are starting with a 3.0. For instance...
3.0
3.1
3.2
3.3 (this is pretty much the max for bore)
3.4 (3.2 crank with 98 p&c)
3.5 (3.2 crank with 100 p&c)
Unless you want to get close the 3.5 is pretty much the max. Best of luck

[jacko241]

Will a 3.2 crank drop into a 3.0 SC case?

[flatsixcrazy]

Hi Henry,
I am in the same boat as you are and it's hard to decide when there are a lot of options out there. I just bought a set of Mahle's 3.2 95mm CIS ps&Cs and also a set of 100mm Ps&Cs from a 964. My current decision is to go with 3.2L CIS Ps&Cs and have my 3.0L rods modify to use with 3.0L crank and 964 cams. I don't know how much HPs I will get with that set up but I hope it'll be more than 180 HP. It will be interesting if I can find a good 3.2L crank :-). Good luck. Andy

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by flatsixcrazy
Hi Henry,
I am in the same boat as you are and it's hard to decide when there are a lot of options out there. I just bought a set of Mahle's 3.2 95mm CIS ps&Cs and also a set of 100mm Ps&Cs from a 964. My current decision is to go with 3.2L CIS Ps&Cs and have my 3.0L rods modify to use with 3.0L crank and 964 cams. I don't know how much HPs I will get with that set up but I hope it'll be more than 180 HP. It will be interesting if I can find a good 3.2L crank :-). Good luck. Andy

Andy,

I'm simply puzzled as to why you would purchase 95mm 3.2L Carrera pistons/cylinders (same bore as your 3.0L) and than spend the money necessary to rework your 3.0L rods just so you can use them? Wouldn't it be less expensive with the same displacement outcome to use 3.0L pistons/cylinders and save the rod modification expense?

If you use larger 98mm CIS pistons/cylinders with a 22mm wrist pin, they are designed for use with the 3.0L rods and crank and there are no rod modifications necessary.

Did I misunderstand your post??? (I have had a couple of glasses wine)

Ralph

[Facey]

just to add a little something...

last weekend my really hot 3.5L was returned to me (mechaically completed but still needs some cosmetics etc...)

right now for engine break in (with rings already set) ignition cuts off @ 6800rpm.... but i can tell u...this engine is a monster.

anyways...the bill ended up being like 2x the last estimate and 5x what i had planned on spending...so somewhere you need to have better self control then i did.

i pretty much did everything on the list...and a little more... and i chose the ultimate hp route of carbs over hp/reliability of EFI.... also IMO carbs looks nicer and add to the sound.

anyways.... i always struggle when people talk about going from 3.0-3.2L.... either go to 3.5L...or stay at 3L..... the cost differance isn't that much.... and a super over square engine should rev like a SOB.... i can't even keep up with my new engine, revs so insanely fast.

before u start, u need to let us know some solid goals.... performance/hp, cost, dirvability, and ultimaley any future goals...

i had to ask myself i i wanted to build a hot 3.5L N/A or build a reliable 3.5L N/A which would later be turned to a Supercharged or turboed 3.5L..... decided i could go fast enough for me with the hot N/A...

need to set yourself some goals.

[Jeff Alton]

Hmmmmm, I like the look of ITB's on a 3.4, carbs are nice too though, and I may run this motor with both someday to see the difference

[Jeff Alton]

OH, and EFI lets me have neat things like this too!!



Cheers

[Facey]

i was by no mean saying EFI looks bad.... IMO it is very good looking... however, your have an excepionaly nice airfilter on those, which can really determine the look.

however i dislike the blue/red fittings....believe Either chris or jerry now carry titianium/black/bronze?

your engine ended up leagues better looking then my own... however i ended up sending my back, as it was returned to me with a mis-matched fan, scrathed fugly paint on the engine shroud, cracked engine shroud, and 12 filthy spark plug wires..... and did not appear anywhere near as finsihed as the bill suggusted...though it sure did go fast.


and i am very jealous of the new tech toys you get to play with... my next one will propley be a forced induction with EFI, well i guess IMO thats my only way to go up (in hp)...




so, as to the upgrade question, u need to let us know what ya want..... there are quiet a few of us here who have gone way overbaord in our persuit for percision, power and prestige(braging rights)....lol...

[Jeff Alton]

It may look nice, but it hasn't run yet!! (My above post was also done tongue in cheek)

If you are rebuilding and funds are tight (when aren't they) a 3.0 with 964 cams and SSI's makes a nice strong motor for the street. If you are changing P/C anyways then the simple route is 3.2 Short Stroke.

Like Facey says, know what you want to do in the future and make choices now that support future plans. Things like CR and cam choice or induction style all need to match up.

Cheers

[JP911]

Joe-
A 3.2/3.3 crank will drop into a 3.0 case.

[jacko241]

Thanks, Jon. They kinda makes my mind up to go to a 3.4 with my 3.0 race engine when it is time to freshen it.

[Carrera3.5L]

You can also use the 76.4mm crank from the 964 in a 3.0L case. One can build a 3.5L long-stroke (98 x 76.4) or true 3.6L (100 x 76.4)... using your 3.0L as the starting point...if you really have a fat wallet 3.7L (102 x 74.4) is also possible...

The cost difference from 3.0L to 3.5L IS significant imo. 3.2L crank/rods in addition to new pistons/cylinders aren't cheap (at least for my budget)...$1,500 for a used crank and set of rods on a $10K rebuild is 15% of the cost.

Ralph

P.S. - I like Jeff's motor too, have to somehow find a way to get him to give it to me...

[jacko241]

Ralph, that is my problem. I don't have a fat wallet.....lol

[JP911]

Be patient and you will find a deal on the crank and rods. I picked up my crank for $700 and a set of 3.2 rods with ARP bolts for $400. Keep an eye on the classifieds forum and ebay. As for the larger bore P/Cs, that will be a tough one to find used and in good condition.

[jacko241]

That is what I will try to do, Jon. However, I want to run Carrillo rods, so will probably have to buy those new, as well as P&C. This motor rus so sweet, though, I hate to change it. I was hoping maybe I came accross someone with a raced prepped SS 3.2 or a 3.4 they wanted to sell, and I would sell this one.

[Jeff Alton]

Ralph

P.S. - I like Jeff's motor too, have to somehow find a way to get him to give it to me... [/B][/QUOTE]

I can be bribed........

Cheers

[Jeff Alton]

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L
You can also use the 76.4mm crank from the 964 in a 3.0L case. One can build a 3.5L long-stroke (98 x 76.4) or true 3.6L (100 x 76.4)... using your 3.0L as the starting point...if you really have a fat wallet 3.7L (102 x 74.4) is also possible...

The cost difference from 3.0L to 3.5L IS significant imo. 3.2L crank/rods in addition to new pistons/cylinders aren't cheap (at least for my budget)...$1,500 for a used crank and set of rods on a $10K rebuild is 15% of the cost.

Ralph

P.S. - I like Jeff's motor too, have to somehow find a way to get him to give it to me...

Hmmm, and stupid me sold a perfect polished std/std 964 crank and balanced rods to EBS right around the time I started this build-up. A 3.7 would have been the way to go. Maybe next time

Cheers

[Facey]

geeze....

u forgot about the short stroke 3.5L :P
100 X ~74

but ya..... everything else equal there is no replcament for displacement.
good thing chebbies aren't equal to porsches...or we'd be in trouble....

one of the key items to remember is that (generally) in modded high revving 911 engines it isn't the rods that fail, it it that the head studs stretch (or w/e it is they do), and the rod bolts fail....make sure you go with either raceware or ARP.

and 100mm P&C's are the way to go no matter which crank you choose.