Motor Meister The Real Truth !

[Thorshammer]

First let me say that I normally don't do this. That is, post negative comments about a company, unless I have first hand facts and have made an attempt to contact the company, present the facts and ask them to make an appropriate business decision.

I have seen many posts about Motor Meister (MM) in other threads, but I had never dealt with any of their products, and thought some of the comments might be sour grapes for customers of MM not doing what they were supposed to do after receiving an engine, until now.

I am posting this to warn any and all that are thinking about doing business with them. BTW, I am not their customer, but have been asked to repair one of their engines.

The engine, what a pile of ****E.

History:

Engine completed in 2002. Car restoration completed in fall of 2005. engine time 934 miles.

Build sheet. 2.7 liter 9.8:1 comp, ge 40 cams, ported heads, electromotive, stock rods, 46 webers. etc...

Brought to me in 2006 May. Contacted me in Dec of 2005 about the problem.

Problem: pukes oil out of oil breather.
Customer repair: put longer hose on breather and run it around the engine compartment.

934 miles, engine noise customer called me, I listened to the engine and it certainly made noise, sounded as if the cylinder head surface was not sealing and it had some??? ,...... bent valves?

compression is as follows: #1, 10lbs. #2 18 lbs. #3 43lbs. 4-6 60-62 lbs. WTF?????

Leakdown: All over 70% and three over 95%, and the motor was only 934 miles old, nice job MM.

Disassembly:

Cam timing 1-3. 3.55mm (ge 40 cams) wrong
Cam Timing 4-6 7.25mm (ge 40 cams) really wrong

#1 cylinder sealing ring out of place damaging top of cylinder, damaging top of piston.
#2 cylinder (niresist ?) ring out of place damage top of cylinder
also damaging top of piston
#3 cylinder bent exhaust valve (insufficient clearance)
#4-6 all bent exhaust valves with damaged guides

exhaust valve clearance on 1-3 .060
Exhaust valve clearance on 4-6 .036 (remember the cam timing was not correct for this cam.

Cylinders, missing fins on all cylinders, different height codes (some 5's some 6's) some mahle, some not. Heights not corrected by maching, really piss poor.

Rocker arm shafts overtorqued by at least 10ft/lbs.

Cam drive gears not shimmed properly

Oil control rings on three pistons had their ends lined up so they did not seal.

Upon reassembly with new rings, new cylinders, rocker arm shaft seals, proper cam timing and proper assembly, I found the ignition timing set at (electromotive) 16 degrees initial, and 22 degrees advance, or 38 degrees total??????, but don't worry, the carbs were nice and rich, about 4 main jet sizes too rich.

This engine had been pre run and adjusted according to the customers build sheet.

This is probably the poorest assembly of any engine I have ever seen. I contacted MM, to discuss the problems with Lee Marks, even sending digital photos of the cylinder sleeves and the sealing rings not properly installed.

I asked for only one thing, two new cylinders and gaskets to repair the damage and assist the customer, no labor. It had been built in 2002. and their warranty was really over at this time. However, I wanted to give him a chance to make a wrong...... right. They offered the gaskets and the cylinders to me, to buy for 600.00. I bought the stuff from someone else.

THESE GUYS ARE POOR AT BEST, AND HAVE NO BUSINESS BUILDING ANY ENGINE IF THIS IS THEIR QUALITY. PLEASE CONSIDER THIS POST IF YOU INTEND ON DOING ANY BUSINESS WITH THEM.

I WOULD STRONGLY DISCOURAGE YOU FROM DOING SO.

Erik C. Madsen

[DW SD]

WOW - great, factual account. These guys are crooks, bottom line.

[Vipergrün]

The real bummer is places like the PCA will NOT pull the Motormeister ads from Panorama...shame on them. The lame PCA president says they "have no proof" of wrongdoing on MM's part. Kudos to Excellence, who had done so. We need to do all we can to protect our fellow p-car owners from these scumbags!

[azasadny]

What's really amazing is that there are some people out there still doing business with Motor Meister! I guess I understand how it could happen. The fact that their ad is in Panorama really makes it look legit and the "rookie" Porsche owner could contact them, especially if they didn't know about this forum...

[jluetjen]

Every time someone sends a motor to them, it seems like different parts are returned. Now we know what happened to all of the unreturned parts!

[David]

Another reason I will not be renewing my PCA membership. I can go to Porsche DE's with my BMWCCA membership anyway.

[Grady Clay]

Guys,

Fighting these battles legally is expensive. If someone has a well documented situation, I for one would help contribute toward legal fees.

It seems that this situation is crying for classification as a Class Action. Even here many could contribute to make right something for the Porsche community.

I think I understand the PCA’s reticence. Leonard and others rightly perceive the potential problem for our club if there is unsubstantiated action. The goal should be to substantiate in court.

If you have been abused, maligned, cheated or otherwise screwed, get off your ass and contact others similarly situated. There is power in numbers. Don’t take it lying down. Make something happen today. Every minute you wait, someone else may be screwed.

To be clear, I don’t have any personal knowledge but I want to see justice done. If innocent, let it be known. If not, then justice should prevail.

Best,
Grady

BTW, I renew my PCA membership willingly each three years. It is a democracy and I vote. Everyone should also. This is how things happen.
G.

[afterburn 549]

Maybe Wayne could make a sticky post of this account at the top here for awhile ??

[mark46]

Can someone shoot me a lead on who would be a good motor builder at a good price. That is one of their selling points. How about in Texas.

[Turbo_pro]

Call Supertec in California.
They are worth the shipping cost.
Do a search on this forum and you'll see what I mean.

They are not the cheapest but they are worth every penny.
Call Henry and he'll walk you through the complete process.

I have one of their engines and I couldn't be happier.
22,000 miles of flawless performance. 3.5 327 RWHP 34 days start to finish.

[afterburn 549]

thats not the pt......How do we let people know about M.M??????????/

[euro911sc]

Well... how much is a 1 page add opposite theirs in Pano? though there may be legal ramifications...

-m

[Vipergrün]

Originally posted by Grady Clay

I think I understand the PCA�s reticence. Leonard and others rightly perceive the potential problem for our club if there is unsubstantiated action. The goal should be to substantiate in court.

Grady, when I approached the PCA leadership on the subject of banning MM from Pano, I kndly directed them to this BBS. They were in no hurry to turn away advertising revenue based on "heresay" on Internet boards and wanted to speak with indivuals who had been screwed (for lack of a better word). However, I have to wonder why there would be legal ramifications if MM were turned away......what happened to free speech...guess the dollar speaks the loudest.

In any case, hope to meet you at the big Pueblo races in a couple of weeks.

-Brad

[efhughes3]

Originally posted by mark46
Can someone shoot me a lead on who would be a good motor builder at a good price. That is one of their selling points. How about in Texas.

Not sure where you live...but Mayo or Zim's here in the Dallas area do great work.

[GothingNC]

I feel bad for the guy trying to sell a 911SC Targa in the VA area.

The ad on Craigslist mentions that his motor was rebuilt by MM.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally posted by euro911sc
Well... how much is a 1 page add opposite theirs in Pano? though there may be legal ramifications...

-m

I am not playing "Devil's Advocate" here, I am simply offering a warning.

I am not a lawyer and these are only my thoughts, but some of the things listed here come close to Tortuous interference.
Although informing the public about questionable business practices seems noble, the law quite often lies on the side of business owners.

Forums like this one certainly help inform the public but I would caution anyone from taking a proactive stance on destroying someone business (even if ethics dictates some action).

California has a Bureau of Automotive repair that investigates automotive malfeasant. Perhaps a letter writing campaign from actual customers that feel a grievance would help to alert the proper authorities.

That said , "who's got the tar and feathers and where's that rail ?" Welcome to Deadwood

[ty901]

i just checked MM's Better Business Bureau record and they're rated BBB (very high). they've had a grand total of 6 complaints registered in the last 36 months. 4 were resolved satisfactorily, 1 was not and one appears to be open. with all the hoopla i hear (over and over) i guess it just reinforces what Grady has pointed out. Folks, don't get mad, get BUSY. (as an aside, anyone know where they post their BBB sign?) it's frightening how a business can stay going for so long by 'one-timing' the general public. anybody checked w/ the Cal. BAR ?
jerry

[Turbo_pro]

Originally posted by afterburn 549
thats not the pt......How do we let people know about M.M??????????/

What is your problem?
You may think helping another person is "not the point" but I believe that is exactly the point.

Originally posted by mark46
Can someone shoot me a lead on who would be a good motor builder at a good price. ............

That is what I did.
Plus I was showing off my engine a little

Bashing MM seems to be a favorite past time hear but that's not helping anyone.
Tell as many people as possible who the good shops are and the word will get around.
Henry was right about the law. If you believe someone is operating fraudulently, contact the correct authority with as much volume as possible and let the system work.
Bureaucracies function best if at all with large volumes of complaints.
Otherwise, interfering in a persons right to operate a business (no matter how poorly) could land you in hot water.

[asphaltgambler]

The Better Business Bureau is as outdated as buggy whips in todays climate. Someone actually has to contact them and file a complaint to start the [slow] ball rolling. Their rulings tend to lean towards the business NOT the consumer. As in: Their middle name.

I know this is factual because I had a complaint over 20 years ago with an aftermarket auto manufacturer that ultimately went nowhere.

Best thing here is to keep this thread alive and maybe some web guys here could start a anti-MM web page that we could keep afloat and would show up in popular search engines.

This sort of web page is done all the time on all sorts of subjects. There are no legal issues if someone is stating the truth.

Any Ideas?

[ty901]

can't agree with your position on the BBB, but so be it. they will keep complaints on file even if the business isn't registered w/ them and if businesses are registered they want to keep their rating up, but if nobody complains...
onward...
on an earlier thread here someone suggested a blog called Motor Meister Sucks kept at the top of the search engines. i was poking around and there was a lively discussion over on the 911 Turbo board. is there a way to tie all these threads together ? as a note, someone mentioned that Excellence has been accepting MM ads again. anybody know ?
best
jerry