Fresh Rebuid, Engine No start..Cams??

AngM018 · 05:57 PM

So i finished my fresh rebuild and cant get it started. The link below is the topic I started in the Turbo forum. Right now I am thinking my cams are 180 out, and was wondering the best way to check without cracking open the sealed chain boxes? At Z1 cylinder #4's intake rocker is loose and not compressed.

maybe you guys have an idea of what else could be going on? The Tach jumping around while cranking worries me as well.

Thank you in advance for any input you can provide.

Lets Play Name that No Start Page 1 (the update is towards the bottom)

Lets Play Name that No Start Page 2

eapcpa · 11-25-2007, 07:09 PM

Looks like you have the info to determine your cam timing. Also pull the distributor cap and look at the rotor position to make sure the distributor is not off 180 degrees. If you don't get it this week I can come by this weekend and give you a hand. Wife and daughter going to the beach and my son is staying home. He has been bugging me bad about going hunting and to "Rush Hour Karting". I am not a big hunter but i will drive anything so I know we will be going to Garner this weekend. Keep us posted on your progress. DTW is in Raleigh as well, he has built a few engines. Need him to help me drop my old 2.2S so I can send the tranny to Henry and make room for the new 2.7 then we can race Karts.

2.7RACER · 11-25-2007, 07:15 PM

Hi John,
If the cams are 180 out, both #1 cyl and #4 cyl will be on the compression stroke at Z1 at the same time, or crank position.
Check the #1 intake rocker for play when you are certain #4 intake rocker is at the compression stroke.

Stated another way, intake #4 rocker under compression at Z1, Rotate the crankshaft clockwise 360 degrees until you are back at Z1. At that point #1 should be under compression.
Rotate the crank another 360 to Z1 and you are back to #4 under compression.

Stated yet another way, #1 fires at near Z1 then 360 degrees clockwise crankshaft rotation back to Z1 #4 fires, 360 later #1 fires, 360 later #4 fires.

They never are under compression at the same time. They alternate.

To fix move one or the other cam 180. It really doesn't matter which side.

Then check the distributor rotor to verify it is pointing at #1 when #1 is under compression.

If you can see the stamping on the end of the cams, both should be up at the same time and then down at the same time.

Have fun and keep us up to date,

sand_man · 11-26-2007, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.7RACER

Stated another way, intake #4 rocker under compression at Z1, Rotate the crankshaft clockwise 360 degrees until you are back at Z1. At that point #1 should be under compression.
Rotate the crank another 360 to Z1 and you are back to #4 under compression.

Stated yet another way, #1 fires at near Z1 then 360 degrees clockwise crankshaft rotation back to Z1 #4 fires, 360 later #1 fires, 360 later #4 fires.

They never are under compression at the same time. They alternate.

If you can see the stamping on the end of the cams, both should be up at the same time and then down at the same time.

That's what I thought, but was hoping another Pelican could verify. John, that's why I was saying you need to pull the valve covers off of both sides...it's not enough to just set the engine to Z1 and check number 4. You need to verify what both sides are doing.

I'm still curious about that jumpy tach...

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 05:55 AM

Ed, I will keep you in the loop. and if you havent been to rush hour yet, those karts are hardcore

I have a couple hours before my next appointment so I am going to pull the cover off the drivers side as well and cycle through the engine.

hcoles · 11-26-2007, 06:08 AM

you may also want to check that all the ground wires are attached to the engine..... on a 3.2 there is a bunch on the #1 runner.... in my case they slipped down and I forgot about them. Not sure if same on your 930

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 07:03 AM

Here are my findings. My original post about #4 being loose at Z1 (TDC) was incorrect.

Z1 TDC : #1 Loose, #4 compressed

Turned 360 back to Z1: #1 compressed, #4 loose.

Turned 360 back to Z1: #1 loose, #4 compressed.

Turned 360 back to Z1: #1 compressed, #4 loose.

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 07:06 AM

I did notice while turning the engine that it would get very hard to turn (b/c of compression in the cylinders) but then I could hear air escaping through what sounded like the center of the engine (I was thinking intake). Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing

2.7RACER · 11-26-2007, 07:43 AM

Hi John,
Your test has proven the cams are not 180 out.
The air leaking into the case is normal.
I would make sure the distributor rotor is pointing at #1 when it is under compression at Z1.
Then rotate the engine clockwise 120 degrees and verify #6 rotor position.
Then 120 more to #2, then #4, #3 and finally #5.
The basics.
If the engine isn't trying to fire, pull a plug wire, connect it to a spare plug. With the plug grounded check for spark.
Got spark, got timing, then check for fuel.

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 07:54 AM

Thanks Doug! I'll do that now, and post the results.

Would the green distributor wire being wired backwards prevent starting? or would it start and just run bad? I did just rewire it, so it could be wrong.

sand_man · 11-26-2007, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngM018

Thanks Doug! I'll do that now, and post the results.

Would the green distributor wire being wired backwards prevent starting? or would it start and just run bad? I did just rewire it, so it could be wrong.

If it won't burn anything up...switch those wires!

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 08:36 AM

I checked the dizzy and everthing looks good. Timing was way off, but I think that is from when Sand_man and I were trying anything to get her started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man

If it won't burn anything up...switch those wires!

Waiting on the family to get back so I have someone to crank the car. Then I will check spark and try swapping the wires.

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 09:06 AM

Well I truly am at a loss here. I decided not to wait for someone to get here to crank it for me, so I tried it myself. It fired right up and sounded great! I had to turn it off immediately b/c the oil needs to be changed since its probably full of fuel. I don't know what I did wrong, but I guess it all worked out. Thanks everyone for their input! I will be sure to post once I get her broke in.

sand_man · 11-26-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngM018

Well I truly am at a loss here. I decided not to wait for someone to get here to crank it for me, so I tried it myself. It fired right up and sounded great! I had to turn it off immediately b/c the oil needs to be changed since its probably full of fuel. I don't know what I did wrong, but I guess it all worked out. Thanks everyone for their input! I will be sure to post once I get her broke in.

Congrats! So be a touch more clear. Was it the green wire? The timing? The firing order on the dizzy?

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 10:24 AM

Ha, I believe it was all three! It started with the green wire that I had to replace (pretty sure it is wired correctly b/c when it did fire it sounded perfect). When I replaced the green wire I must of gotten confused on which way I had left the rotor b/c it was 180 the wrong way.

Just filled it up with Brad-Penn break in oil. cross your fingers she handles the first stage of break in.

sww914 · 11-26-2007, 10:32 AM

It's hard to remember sometimes to check the basics. I think that we've all almost started ripping wires out of a car when the problem was just a blown fuse or a bulb.

2.7RACER · 11-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Way to go John,

AngM018 · 11-26-2007, 04:55 PM

Thanks again, for all your help. It does make me rest easier knowing my cams are in line.