First time rebuilder gaining momentum!

[Don Settergren]

Thanks to the confidence you all gave me, I've dropped the engine in my '93 C2 to repair the damage due to water flooding (see post "ID this for a slow $20" - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/201186-id-slow-20-a.html?highlight=%242).

The drop went well – I broke one wire that I forgot to disconnect at the rear of the engine in plain view (duh!). I removed the rear bumper, loosened the intake to gain more flexibility and clearance, and then lowered the whole assembly on an ATV jack. Oh yeah, I dropped the engine a few inches to gain more clearance to get hands, tools and a mirror above the tranny to find\loosen that pesky starter nut.

I had to remove the driver’s side exhaust manifold to get access to the lower tranny bolt. I tried wobbly sockets, open ended wrenches; offset closed wrenches, those ratcheting closed end wrenches, even the offset ratcheting ones, but all either hit the tranny or the exhaust manifold. Maybe someone else has a better method or a properly bent wrench to get a solid grip on that nut…

Disassembly went as easily as Wayne's book says. The machine shop has been helpful - less so the guy at the counter, far more so the guy who does the actual work. For a water damaged engine that the oil pump basically rotted, the machinist and I were pleasantly surprised about the condition of the rest of the engine - it is clean and shows little wear (only 24k miles!). Maybe I didn't need the ~$2000 worth of goodies from Pelican, but "while I was in there" I might as well replace all wear and seal items. I've got one side of the case cleaned and back on the engine stand. Hopefully I'll get the case assembled this weekend. Watch for pictures on Monday – and questions between then as now. Thanks in advance!!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/201186-id-slow-20-a.html?highlight=%242

[axl911]

Don,

I too am in the process of tearing my 92 964 down. How did you get the power steering pump nut connecting to the cap off?

thanks,
anthony

[addictionMS]

there is no turning back now, I found it to be a lot of fun, enjoy and take you time.

Jim

[Don Settergren]

Hey Anthony, I'm not sure which nut\cap you are talking about on the power steering pump. The only bolt that was difficult for me was the one holding the belt pully to the cam. If your valves are still riding the cam or the cam chain still connected to the secondary shaft, you sure don't want to turn the cam! In my case, I clamped a small block between the spokes of the pully and she never moved a MM. Send me a PM or start another post so I can keep this one clean for my rebuild progress - sorry, I'm a neat freak.

[Don Settergren]

Anthony, Don't bother with a PM or a new post on your power steering nut question. This is a perfect post for 964/3.6 questions as this a speedy board with great capabilities so there's no need to keep to singular topics as I suggest. Kick me...

[ChrisBennet]

Hi Don,
Just in case you don't know this already, be aware that there are a few tools specific to the 964/993 that you will want to acquire or fabricate.
-Chris

[axl911]

Don, I think you answered my question. I am referring to the power steering pulley to the camshaft. Basically, you wedged the block such that the pulley don't move right?

On another note, I see that the cylinder head temp sensor is screwed into the head of cyl #3. How do you get this out as it is recessed in pretty deep.

I am in the process of stripping down to the long block.

thanks,
anthony

[Doug Steinel]

Don,

A critical question: what is the temperature in that garage? Wisconsin can get pretty cold.

[Don Settergren]

Yep, I have on loan a couple of tools from a local Pelican (thanks WERK-1), but also purchased the cam holder, z-block and gauge, and some other tools. I hope I have them all, but as Wayne's bible only covers to '89 models and there is no definitive list for models beyond, I might come up short at some point...

As for the temp sensor on the #3 (off memory) head, I left it on and told the shop to be careful of it. I'm guessing a deep, thin walled socket with a groove cut out of it for the wire is what is needed. I've never seen a tool like that, but maybe Pelican can find one or http://www.zdmak.com/ will have one.

Lastly, it's currently 31 degrees outside and a balmy 43 in my garage. The garage is "heated" by the warmth of the house from 2 sides and the morning sun. A small space heater raises the temp pretty comfortably as the walls and ceiling is insulated. The only bonus about the snow and cold is that you can't drive your car so you might as well rip her apart.

The FedEx truck just dropped off 2 boxes from Pelican!!

[ChrisBennet]

Hi Doug,
You'll need a little tool for putting the O-rings on the through bolts and you'll need to make a tool for tensioning the chains when you time the cams.
-Chris
Tool P9511:


Homemade tensioner tool:

[Don Settergren]

Don't laugh at my cheap-chuck attitude, but a modified Sharpie marking pen looks like should work instead of the P9511 for installing the o-rings over the thru-bolts - right?

I just pulled the tensioning tool from the Pelican box, and I haven't figured it out yet. Your home-made tool looks perfect. What happens when you remove it and reinstall the factory tensioner? Is there an issue about the chain going slack and the cam moving? I'll me a little more versed later today after I drop the valve seals at the machine shop and get Wayne's book back - I gotta re-read some parts before I start turning wrenches...

[ChrisBennet]

Don writes
Don't laugh at my cheap-chuck attitude, but a modified Sharpie marking pen looks like should work instead of the P9511 for installing the o-rings over the thru-bolts - right?

Don,
Us Yankees prefer the term "frugal". If you don't laugh at me for being frugal I won't laugh at you for being cheap.
As simple as the assembly sleeve P9511 (Porsche part #000.721.951.10) looks, you may need to work a little to duplicate it.
It consists of 2 parts:
Part A: A straight tube with an inside diameter of 11mm and an overall length of ~65mm.
Part B: A cone shaped sleeve that has an inside diameter of 9.9mm and on outside diameter of 10.9mm

The cone protects the O-ring from being cut by the bolt threads.
The "tube" and is designed to slide over the cone shaped part and push the O-ring off the cone and down the shaft into the recessed area where the through bolt nuts go.

This is excerpted from the factory manuals.
O-ring must not be pushed down onto bolt collar (10mm)!










I got my sleeve tool for $20 including shipping on Ebay back in 2003 but I see that they are over $72 from Pelican so it makes sense to use your brain over your wallet if you can.

I use the tool for pre-964 motors also. I figure every little bit of protection helps and it's even makes things a little easier.
-Chris

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Don Settergren
I just pulled the tensioning tool from the Pelican box, and I haven't figured it out yet. Your home-made tool looks perfect. What happens when you remove it and reinstall the factory tensioner? Is there an issue about the chain going slack and the cam moving? I'll me a little more versed later today after I drop the valve seals at the machine shop and get Wayne's book back - I gotta re-read some parts before I start turning wrenches...

Don,
This is turning into a bit a of "964 tools post". I hope you don't mind.

This is the tensioner tool (P204) for the pre-964 cars:


This is the factory tensioner tool (P9401) for the 964:


This is Yankee version (and the O-ring tool mentioned previously):


The factory tool is spring loaded and costs over $400. The Yankee version came in under my $3 budget not counting the black paint.


While you're at the hardware store picking up the parts for your tensioner tool, pick up some big clear hose. The edge of the spigots (holes that cylinders slide into) are a sealing surface for the cylinder base O-rings so you don't want to put any dings in them. To keep this from happening the factory manual suggests putting a piece of hose around the rods that stick out far enough to hit the edge.


-Chris

[Don Settergren]

Wow, that crank is a piece of art! I can't imaging slipping a wrench and nicking one of the bearing surfaces. She's ready to be dropped into the case today. I'm taking to project slow and steady.

Chris Bennet - Thanks for the hints on the tools:
-tubing to protect the rod\case - check!
-homemade case bolt o-ring guide made from a Sharpie pen (just ream out the pen shaft and use the cap to push off the ring) - check
-chain tensioner (steering wheel puller) - check!

-but DUH, only one cam timing chain - must not have changed the quantity from one to two when ordering from Pelican. So much for getting the case sealed up this weekend. I need to do another inventory check!

? Do I need two chain tensioners? The Porsche shop manual shows two, but all manuals explain the process serially - as in one at a time. Does that mean I can get along with only one tensioner, or is it best to have both chains at tension when adjusting each one indivdually?

Heck, I'm delayed a week by the chain, so I have lots of time fabricate one if I need to...

[ChrisBennet]

You probably don't need to worry about nicking a bearing surface. The bearing surface is really hard.

Smart thinking on the Sharpie!

You only need one chain tensioner.

I've gotten in the habit of checking the contents when I receive any sort of order. A lot of times I'll order, say, 2 widgets and the box will only contain 1 because the other widget is on backorder or is coming from another warehouse further away.
-Chris

[Don Settergren]

The case is sealed up and torqued down! However, the darn crank seal worked its way out. I must not have had it perfectly straight as when I was tightening the outer bolts I noticed it had slipped out on one side. I completely removed it an now must search for a way to press that baby in. I though about using the double-mass flywheel, but it won't push it to the bottom of the groove. What holds the seal all the way into the groove, or does it just float in the groove? Any thoughts?

I'm off to search the BBS for hints...

[ChrisBennet]

The seal just needs to go in flush. I can't remember how I seated it. The seal is a larger diameter than on pre-964 motors so my flywheel seal installer wouldn't work. The miracle of friction holds the seal in.

The case around the seal has a slot in the edge to allow for removing the old seal. The inside (facing the seal) edge of that slot often has a raised burr that will catch the outer edge of the new seal. You can feel it with your finger easily if it is there. I remove the burr with a Dremel after masking the crank with some masking tape. Clean everything up afterwards and oil the crank before installing the new seal.

-Chris

[Don Settergren]

Whew, thanks for the good news. I think I'm going to have to slip the case off the stand to get any tools in there. This link seems to clarify the flywheel seal depth issue and install tools...
How far does flywheel seal protrude?

[350HP930]

Due to the pitfalls in trying to clamp the seal in the case with all the other issues that need to be attended to in a limited time I am planning on tapping my seal in AFTER the case is together.

[Don Settergren]

Another set of hands might have kept that flywheel seal in place, but tapping it in afterwards was a snap. I can tell you this, it ain't gonna move - ever. Which means it probably won't leak - fingers crossed.

I triple checked my inventory. It seems as though the head gasket set doesn't come with the late model cylinder head gaskets. The kit comes with the aluminium gaskets for the early '70s models, but not the orignal fibre ones I'm busy cleaning out of the revised cylinder groove of the later 964s. I can still get them shipped from Pelican before the weekend, so no time will be lost. I can't wait to get to the long block complete, meanwhile here is a picture of my short block: