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The Begining
Starting my rebuild.
1988 Targa 98K miles oil consumption 1qt. per 2500 miles I have 2 broken head studs that I found, and only pulled one valve cover. I am starting this thread so that I will get all of the criticism of what I am doing wrong. I have a tendency to cut corners, because I am cheap. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205076318.jpg The drop. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205076349.jpg The tool. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205076375.jpg My help. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205076396.jpg Myself. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205076421.jpg |
WOW! 70 views and not one smart alek comment about me being cheap.
Did I post this in the wrong place. |
What corners are you cutting?
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That does not seem to be a lot of miles, Thinking maybe go with just a top and cams or no upgrades at all? How was the pressure?
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Graig I never checked compression. I am thinking about doing a cold leak down, I really do not think it will give me a definitive answer about rings.
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What about oil pressure?
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Oil pressure was fine 1 bar per 1k RPM.
The car has been sitting for the better part of 3 years. I have only driven it 700 miles. I think this had something to do with the head studs breaking. |
good luck on the rebuild, I'm sure you will be able to find plenty of ways to be cheap without cutting corners. This board is full of practical and affordable ways to get the job done right :)
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Started the disassembly
I start yesterday and here are a few pics.
How do you tell if the G-50 update has been done? I cut this wire. What is this? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205507415.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205507471.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205507492.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205507538.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205507569.jpg |
known 3.2 fix its........
rod bolts valve guides valves springs crap fuel line change to aircraft fuel line updatum clutchem updatum G-50 since yers is a 88 may already have parts from p.o. 8th journal seal theres a few for starters. the only cheap in the equation is yer labor. the wire if im correct is cylinder head temp sensor |
Looks like you cut the wire to the cylinder head temp sensor, about $75.
I DO like your molded wooden engine cradle. Clever! Glenn |
Looks like the update has not been done on the clutch.
The shaft came out easy, I did spray it with PB blaster. Head sensor will probably be replaced, or I could just solder the wire back together. The parts list is getting big! |
More Progress
All of the exhaust bolts were rusted.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049315.jpg This is the easiest way to get them off, cutting torch. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049328.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049427.jpg Broke two bolts on the shroud. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049542.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049591.jpg Alternator was the hardest thing to remove so far. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206049633.jpg This are going pretty well so far, but I am just at the start. |
My first Porsche engine o/h was a 87 last year. Came out OK. Have lots of plastic bags (of all sizes) available and label everything. Take lots of pictures. Don't mix up cylinder stuff. Keep it separate. Replace the head temp lead. They are impossible to replace one the engine is installed without a lot of work. Don't skimp on parts. Have alternator overhauled while it is out. Starter too. Take your time. Have fun.
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OldTee I plan on doing the alternator, but I may skip the starter. I can always push start it.
I finally got it on an engine stand. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206217575.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206217586.jpg Is there a trick to getting to the nuts on the heat exchangers? I know the barrel nuts use a long hex head. |
The nuts requiure various combinations of 12 or 13 mm flex sockets (depends on whether they are original or replaced) especially helped by a flex extension or a 6" wobble extension. There is a special tool for the barrel nuts but pick up a set of Harbor Freights inexpensive "ball end" Allen wrenchs and the (I think) 8 mm fits and allows you to get in to the sometimes off angle barrel (off angle in relation to the access hole in the HE. Some folks bend a 12 or 13 long box wrench for accessing the nuts as well
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Thanks Richard.
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I'm cheap too. Some guys pull out all the stops and do everything on their 911 build in the most optimal fashion possible. That's the right way to do it, but I usually can't afford either the time or the money, maybe both. If everything is absolutely perfect it should last longer, but I like a bit of adventure too. :-)
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206391225.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206391239.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206391287.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1206391300.jpg I found what looks like a piece of coat hanger with a rubbery substance stuck behind the oil cooler. All went well today except for the rocker bushings. They were very rusty, and the small hex head stripped. I ended up drilling the large hex head side until it released. |
By cutting corners you mean doing a top end vs. splitting the case? Right? That would likely be ok.
The guys here can corroborate your measurments are within spec. Have you picked who is rebuilding your heads? Thought about having the hydraulic oil lines and fuel lines rebuilt? Goodluck. Regards, |
Bernard, I was thinking I would not have to have the heads rebuilt.
I plan on just replacing the bottom head studs, and put it back together with new seals. Also new fuel line and oil lines. Is this just wishful thinking? |
My first suggestion would be valve guides but if you're only using 1 qt/2,500 miles I'm not so sure it's worth it. As mentioned previously, there are a ton of little things you can replace with the engine out.
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One step up two back!
I made some more progress yesterday, but also made a few more problems.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207947457.jpg I dropped the woodruff key in the hole, I asked on the tec. forum and it can be fished out. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207947634.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207947655.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207947665.jpg The heads look a bit worse than I was expecting. It looks like there is oil on the exhaust side so maybe I should have the head worked. |
Peppy - Just want to say thanks for a great thread so far. Please continue to post pics as you make progress. I'll be in your shoes in the coming months, so the thread will help me out.
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A few more pics from yesterday.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207951010.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207951042.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207951089.jpg I soaked the heat exchanger nuts with PB Blaster for a week and used a torch to heat them up and still broke four studs. The barrel nuts were so rusted that the allen head sockets would just spin. I had to use vise grips on them and had pretty good luck. There was one of the barrel nuts that I could not get to so I cut it off with a sawzall. |
I have seen a lot worse heads, whats the sealing surfaces look like?
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Peppy, from the pics and the mileage, you might want to have your heads done, although mine looked worse than yours (pics of my exhaust ports before are on here in another thread). Your head rebuilder would also make quick work of the broken exhaust studs.
With your heads re-worked, the cylinder head studs fixed and the engine cleaned up and re-sealed, you should be able to enjoy the car for many miles before you have to go back in there again. It is, however, your car and your money and time. Brian |
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1207963328.jpg The pictures are not that great and I have not looked at them very closely. |
I stopped by the shop today and took a few more pictures, and tried my luck at getting the woodruff key. I had no luck, but the chain ramps are still in and blocks a lot of the view.
If the cams look ok can I just leave them in their housings? This rebuild thing is going to take a long time, my shop is almost an hours drive from my house. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032043.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032053.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032077.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032094.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032119.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032131.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208032147.jpg My shop is really dirty compared to the ones I have seen on PP. |
I am starting to regret trying this.
I have learned a few tips. 1. Vise grips are the best tool I own. 2. When trying to remove the P&C's in one piece you can not pull the cylinder up to high or the rings pop out. 3. You can not push the rings back in with a screw driver. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208359781.jpg What is this rubber substance for, an oil leak maybe. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208359933.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360043.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360088.jpg Does the chain ribbing in the housing matter? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360119.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360152.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360170.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360188.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360204.jpg I think this is a crack between two head stud holes. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208360260.jpg My shop is not as clean as everyone else's. Sorry about the photos, my camera is a POS, but it was free. |
The rubber substance behind the oil cooler is for a oil leak. I found it in the Bentley manual.
I have now split the case, the rear oil seal hung it up, but after removal it came right apart. I never found the woodruff key, maybe it fell out and I never saw it. I can not take that chance so the engine comes completely apart. |
I called the machine shop today, and it is not looking as bad as I thought.
$250-$300 to put in valve guides and grind the valves + $ for any parts that are needed. The shop is also going to measure the crank, rods, and P&Cs. I have alusil and am probably going to try and use them with new rings. I know that this is a gamble. I have one piston that I broke the oil ring on. What are the thoughts of just replacing this one ring and leaving the other P&Cs alone? |
If the shop is going to measure everything, the P&Cs will be separated, right?
I would rering them all. It only makes sense to not rering if the rings are left undisturbed in the cylinders. I would say, it will be even more of a gamble trying to reseat old rings than new rings. Measure ring grooves, have your cylinders cleaned, slightly honed with the sunnen paste and scotch brite pad. It will remain a gamble, but with lot higher chances of success than reusing old rings. Aurel |
No woodruf key
I split the case yesterday and did not find the woodruff key. Oh well it is apart now.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208962277.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208962293.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208962313.jpg Are cracks like this normal? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208962346.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208962360.jpg |
Lookie what I did.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1208982703.jpg I forgot to take the pulley off. |
Do I dare ask what a hammer is doing in the visinity of the engine build? haha
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I am in the middle of a rebuild of my 86 930 motor. I stripped it to fix some oil leaks and stiff clutch and will do a few other things while I'm in there. I was not planning to replace my rings as ring grooves and barrels measure up OK, however your comment regarding replacement of rings has me wondering if I should do this. What is the problem with reusing old rings - do they tend to leak when re-used? Bill |
If the ring gaps are in specs, they can be reused according to this thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/273852-reusing-rings.html?highlight=old+rings If the heads are being rebuilt, it makes sense to put new rings in. If the motor had good compression, and is open for other reasons, then I would leave the old rings. Aurel |
Update
I took the heads, crank, rods, and P&C's to the machine shop yesterday. I am having the heads redone and everything else measured.
I took them to T. Hoff in Raleigh. |
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