I Need Cam Tools

[lucittm]

Does anyone have the proper cam R&R tools that I could borrow?

P203 46mm crowfoot wrench
P207 Z-block and metric dial indicator (I have an English version)
P237 Cam holder (pin type)

It looks like this is $200+ worth of tools for one-time use, and I just can't justify that.

I would be willing to pay postage both ways and a minor rental fee.

The tools will be returned in the same condition as received (or be replaced with a new ZDMAK tool).

I am ready for these tools now and I will be able to send them back around Sept 15th (pending out-sourced head work).

Thanks,
Mark

[AFM744]

Mark- If this is for your '91 Turbo you need the P237 (aka: 9191) tool, not the Crowsfoot.
I made this post a month ago, and ended up buying the tools. I'd loan them to you but I'm actually using them right now.

[lucittm]

AFM,
I thought the P237 was needed to hold the cam from turning and the crowfoot wrench was for the nut on the cam sprocket itself?

I appreciate your insights. Any other guidance? How long did it take you from engine tin to heads off?

Thanks,
Mark

[AFM744]

First, the P237 is for the later cam, it holds the sprocket while you bust off the nut with a conventional socket wrench. No need for crowsfoot.
As for how long, I take The 5th! I dropped the motor 5 weeks ago, but I have been casually and methodically cleaning parts as I go. First, the tranny went out to the driveway for a pressure wash. Now it's silver The tins are still in a pile in the sideyard awaiting the day I gather up the motivation to fire up the POS Harbor Freight sandblaster. Everything else got a thorough scrub-down with solvent and brushes as it came off, then cataloged in boxes. Last night I finally disassembled the second head/cam tower assembly and pulled the valves.

I'll add more to this post as I remember it, meantime you're welcome to PM or email me (x-1 at pacbell dot net). Since I'm doing the same work to the same car it's all fresh in my head.

[lucittm]

Got it. With a regular socket (What size???), no need for a crowfoot wrench. That is not clear in any of the documentation. Once the covers come off though, I think it would be obvious.

My trans is silver now too. I plan on taking the same approach; remove, clean, study, repeat...

Where did you get your P237? I saw it at ZDMAK for $84.50. Ouch.

I'll bug you later on your e-mail. Looks like you might be near my timezone, I'm in Virginia.

Thanks,
Mark

[AFM744]

I'm in CA.
I don't remember the socket size... maybe 30mm?
Wayne's price on the P237 ($73) is the best I found (even over FleaBay!). But more importantly, in return for hosting this forum I give him whatever business I can. Dispite his hero-rockstar status he still replies to my emails.

Most important $$ to spend on this job though is Wayne's book. There are a couple post-'89 inconsistencies, but for the most part our engine is a 930/68. We have full-fin cylinders, everything else internal is 930.

What are you having done on the heads? My exhaust valve guides were visibly worn. The valves slamming closed non-concentrically to the seat have worn away the seats. But my pistons, rings, cylinders, crank and rod bearings are all excellent after 90k.

[lucittm]

I saw you were in Pleasanton right after I sent my reply. I used to live in Novato, I was there for 6 years.
Too bad I can't see the forum window from the Reply screen.

I have up to 36mm Craftsman sockets so I should be OK. I have emailed Wayne before, he is great. I have his book, too. I think there are six Pelican FedEx boxes in the garage right now.

When I did a cold compression test, I had 30 psi on #5 and 95 psi on #6 (all the rest were 120 +/-). I did the leak down and could not get a reading at all on #5 and 25% on #6. Funny thing, it runs good and makes good power. Maybe it has been that way since I bought it with 45K on the odometer, so I don't know. I'm at 62,350 miles now. I use about a quart of oil every time I fill up with gas and the #5 and #6 plugs are loaded up with carbon.

I'm thinking guides, too. But Steve at Rennsport thinks rings. I wanted to leave the cam tower intact, he said I can't do that. Everything has to come off, too bad.

I finished the clutch/flywheel removal and replaced all the seals in the transmission, so I can set that aside for now. I will start the engine tear down in earnest tomorrow and I may end up ordering the P237 from Pelican if nobody has one I can borrow.

I plan on only doing the right hand side (cylinders 4, 5, and 6). I have the gaskets and seals for that much anyway. Not sure what I'll find when I get inside the engine...

I also will be fixing oil leaks on the turbo scavenge pump and the power steering pump.

Where are you sending your heads? I've heard Ollies in LA, CA is good, also Competition Engineering in Lake Isabella, CA.

Thanks,
Mark

[AFM744]

First, why would you drop the motor and do all that work on only one side? You in a hurry?
I had very little oil usage so I didn't suspect the guides (though I also did not leakdown test the motor, and the distorted seats would've become evident). I started off thinking I'd just lower the motor, pull out and swap the cams, and button it all back up. But by the time I got the motor out I was so covered in black slime from the case seam leak I just decided to tear it all down. Looking at these valve guides I'm glad I did. I'm putting in ARP studs (don't hate) and rod bolts, and the aforementioned 964 cams.

I just finished extracting the Dilavar head studs. I couldn't swallow $200 for the recommended Snap-On, and got the job done with a $20 Powerbuilt stud remover from Kragen. And a lot of heat. It was 90F, plus heating the case to 200+F with propane, I need to rehydrate. Once heated, I probably could've removed 20 of these with jamb-nuts... but there were 4 (all end ones) that were all-out vein-popping, dripping sweat on the cheater-bar "Please don't snap!!!" buggars.

Heads are either going to German Precision or S-Car-Go. I had a helpful conversation with Rob at S and would like to give him the business, though even he recommended German Precision as an alternate.

[lucittm]

My original excuse for dropping the engine was to upgrade the DMF to the LWF that is offered by Patrick Motorsports for our 965s. This is my first engine drop and I did it myself.

I talked to many folks and they said it would be good to at least take a look at #5 and #6 since I had the engine out. I also planned on replacing the minor oil leak on the power steering - cam tower interface "while I was in there".

I really don't have the funds to do a complete top end on both sides. The goal is to repair and replace back to stock, not upgrade the engine.

Finding the blown waste gate diaphragm during disassembly for cleaning was a PITA. Thanks to a Pelicanite I was able to repair the waste gate and get it back together with a stock .7 bar spring.
I did not find an exploded drawing of waste gate parts on our host's website. I still don't know the P/Ns for the springs and the diaphragm.

The plugs removed from #1, #2, and #3 have the chocolate brown color and I really don't see a need to tear into that side of the engine. My case seam is good. All my head studs are tight. I was led to believe our cars did not come with Dilavar head studs?

Your valve seals were obviously doing a good job to keep your oil consumption low with the worn guides.

I like ARP. A bit pricey, but you cannot argue with their success in metallurgy and the finish on the studs and bolts is awesome. I liked your story about the last four studs. That was me removing the input shaft seal from the transmission #*!%?~!!!

How did you remove the power steering belt pulley from the camshaft? The PEC calls for Porsche tool 9236.

Thanks,
Mark

[AFM744]

I too want to ditch the DMFW. Badly. But the Patrick unit is so expensive... I'm going to research other solutions. I'm going to EFI the car anyway so I don't *need* the three-tooth signal ring. I could even make/buy a three-tooth signal wheel to mount on the rear pulley (EFI style) if I need to reassemble this before going EFI.
As for removing the power steering pump drive pulley, I think I held the pulley by sticking a screwdriver through it to one of the pump bolt heads. Not criminally reprehensible if done carefully.
My #1, #3 and #4 have the most conspicuously worn guides. Not necessarily the #5 & 6 like is expected.
Yup, 964 Turbos still have the old Dilavar studs. Mine were all fine, all were tight, none broke, etc. Surprising as I see a correlation between environmental conditions and Dilavar failures due to corrosion. And my car spent the first half of it's life in coastal North Carolina, then I rescued it from the silicone facade of LA. And much of my engine's hardware shows the salt-air corrosion.
The braintrust for Turbo studs this month seems to be the 993 Dilavars, which are nearly double the price of ARP. I too am running this show on very limited means, and there are people on this forum who'll chastise you for being cheap. On the one hand "Anything worth doing is worth doing right". On the other hand, I got sick of planning out my build, adding up my list, and then giving up and wanting to sell the car. So I'm making choices as I go. I chose to start this project dispite financial challenge as I needed to have something to work on. And if my car doesn't turn a wheel for 8 more months because I'm busily cleaning parts, finding the best deal I can on parts, etc, then I can be patient.

[dleatherbu]

If you haven't already found them, I have a z-block and cam holding tool you can use. I'm nearby on the lower Eastern Shore of VA. Could UPS them tomorrow.

Dixon

[lucittm]

Dixon,
Thank you for your kind offer. I had just sent the tool order to Pelican on Saturday. It looks like you and I have most of Virginia covered for cam tools.

Thanks,
Mark