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-   911 Engine Rebuilding Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/)
-   -   using a "coil pack" ignition (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/437273-using-coil-pack-ignition.html)

WERK I 10-29-2008 11:05 AM
Sorry. If you look on the web page, the password is next to "PASS"........it's "wiringdiagrams21.com"....no quotes. good luck.

Jeff Alton 10-29-2008 03:17 PM
I am a little confused...

Are you trying to fire more than one coil at a time with same ground trigger wire from the ignitor/controller?

Cheers

JohnJL 10-30-2008 12:49 AM
Its a 48MB file so no postie here. Its 125 pages of delight. Lots of detail there, I'll have to take a look later at the ignition sections...

sjf911 11-12-2008 02:13 PM
This COP solution is incredible. How well do the lower plug coils handle the exhaust heat? Please post some pictures of your setup and 3 coil controller.
I assume that you are actually producing a "pseudo-wasted spark" ignition with this scheme, is that correct?

kenikh 11-12-2008 03:59 PM
Yes, pics tell a thousand words and I am reaaaally interested in doing this for my car.

kenikh 11-12-2008 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gestalt1 (Post 4262326)
i guess any multi-coil type ignition controller, including efi controllers with ignition control could run these coils - right? Great find with the kawasaki coils! this could possibly be the cheapest way to get a twin plug system i've seen yet. $50-100 for coils, approx $200 for a salvaged controller, $200 for trigger wheel/sensor and $500 for head machining = $1000

Subtract $175 for the controller wheel...you can graft a cheap toothed wheel onto your existing crank wheel for about $25. Subtract the $500 for head machining, since that is assumed. Twin plug for under $400. Compelling? YOU BET YOUR SWEET A$$!!!

Jeff Alton 11-12-2008 05:58 PM
I still want to see the setup and wiring for a vehicle running 12 plugs and only 3 ignitors....

Cheers

WERK I 11-12-2008 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Alton (Post 4299649)
I still want to see the setup and wiring for a vehicle running 12 plugs and only 3 ignitors....

Cheers
+1
I can see two modified HPV-1 modules required for something like this.

JohnJL 11-13-2008 12:23 AM
I run 2. Not sure how 3 works?

safe 11-13-2008 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJL (Post 4300095)
I run 2. Not sure how 3 works?
I would be a lot more interested in how you can fire a six cylinder engine with 2 ignitors...

TimT 11-13-2008 09:32 AM
Quote:
how you can fire a six cylinder engine with 2 ignitors...
You use one three channel ignitor for 6 plug waste spark, two three channel for dual plug waste spark.

Clay Perrine 11-13-2008 11:37 AM
Actually, "waste spark" is a misnomer in this case. A true "waste spark" system uses one double ended coil for 2 cylinders, and a common high voltage circuit for 2 spark plugs. If you could, without shocking the bejeezus out of yourself, pull one plug wire, you would kill two cylinders. What makes it work is that the inert exhaust gases in the non power producing cylinder have very little resistance to a spark jumping the plug, so the voltage goes to the cylinder on the compression stroke.

This system uses a pseudo-waste spark system. It triggers 2 separate coils, one on the exhaust stroke of a cylinder, and one on the compression stroke of a different cylinder. More efficiency can be gained by using a true sequential ignition system.

Don't get me wrong, this is a very ingenious way to setup your ignition, and I am sure it works great. I am taking note of this for my project.

But for the cool look factor, I am probably going with an old school RSR Style twin plug distributor.

sjf911 11-13-2008 07:19 PM
Actually, it looks like it triggers 4 coils simultaneously, 2 on the compression stroke and 2 on the exhaust stroke like wasted spark which would use only 2 coils for the same number of spark plugs.

JohnJL 11-14-2008 11:26 AM
Mine is Accell 6-tower coils (same as EDIS-6) with a pair of triple-channel Haltech ignitors. I have burned through 2 Haltechs.

kenikh 11-14-2008 01:41 PM
So correct me if I am wrong; to build a twin plug ignition all you need is:

12 - 2005 ZX650R COP coils; $200 Ebay
6 - lower cover plug wire holders; $66.50 Pelican
1 - 3 coil electromotive controller; HPV-1? HPX? Tec1?
1 - crank sensor; $10 Detroit type Ebay - hand built mount
1 - Toothed crank timing wheel; $25 Aftermarket Ebay
1 - spool of wire to build the low voltage harness

Is this right?

COMPU-TRONIX 11-17-2008 03:33 PM
Our Twin-Plug DIS is on the way... currently we are still in testing with it.

A prototype was on display at SEMA, and will also be on display at PRI. It will include an internal rev limiter and tach driver. It will be a drop in- plug in- system.
No mods required...;)

Food for thought...

kenikh 11-17-2008 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by COMPU-TRONIX (Post 4309435)
Our Twin-Plug DIS is on the way... currently we are still in testing with it.

A prototype was on display at SEMA, and will also be on display at PRI. It will include an internal rev limiter and tach driver. It will be a drop in- plug in- system.
No mods required...;)

Food for thought...

http://compu-tronix.com/DIS6911.htm

http://compu-tronix.com/DIS6911Assembled319x377.png

Phoenix-MN 11-19-2008 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oemexp (Post 4261956)
Yes. Also, Bob is correct. All you need is a single 3 coil electromotive controller. You remove the coil packs. There are 2 prongs under each coil. From the hot wire under each coil, you run 4 wires (1 each to the hot side of the twin coils on each cylinder the electromotive coil would normally fire to, 4 wires total). You also need to run the ground pin to the same 4 coils (ground pin on the coils). You do this for each of the three coil pack signal prongs on the Electromotive controller plate. Keep the second controller as a backup. I don't have pictures (sold my air cooled race engine with the system on board).

The controller charges the coils, then the ground circuit is closed when the computer wants the coils to fire. You don't have to worry about cross fire problems because the wires only transmit 12 volts. Bundle the wires into a nice harness around the engine compartment or on the motor. I make up RSR type clips to hold the coils from vibrating out of the spark plug holes. The coils are heavier than the Porsche boots and will fall out faster than the boots will.

Mark,
So the Kawasaki coils are being driven by 12 Volts and the Electromotive Controller? (Best I can tell from Kawasaki service manuals is that the coils run on 100 volts).

Also, other than getting a wiring harness is there a source or part number for the connectors for the coils?

Thanks
Paul

Mark McClure 11-20-2008 08:59 PM
This is great.... I already have a dual plug setup using a mazda distributor for crank angle sensor ( 24/2 teeth). I have 2 ignitors and an EMS Stinger ECU. The setup uses 2 Ford tripple coils packs ( dual poll ). This gives a wasted spark system.

I have been looking at ways to eliminate the colipack and COP loks good. I am about to replace the wiring harness as it is a hashup of the original one from the previous owner.

I will replace the harness and leave enough space to change this to a COP via a plug.....this way I can change back to the original if it proves to be more trouble than it is worth.

let me know how things progress with this project...

Cheers

Mark.......

sjf911 11-23-2008 08:43 PM
Anyone have ideas for 3-channel ignitors that could handle the pencil coils and sources/costs? Are there potential used sources in the U-pull junkyards?


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