using a "coil pack" ignition

[ahdoman]

I am in the process of rebuilding a 73 1/2 2.4T w/CIS. Does anybody make an electronic ignition / coil packs kit for these engines? Just wondering since my dizzy seems to be toast and trying to think outside the box. Or...anybody got any other ignition ideas?

[HawgRyder]

How about coil on plug?
Neat...small...only primary wires to route (small wire).
Available from several places...Ford...Chrysler...etc.
You can buy them from your local parts supplier (aftermarket).
Does away with the distributor.
Some only need a single trigger to work....so you only need to have a hole drilled and tapped into the damper to get it to run.
Bob

[al lkosmal]

I saw this link on an earlier thread. looks interesting.
http://www.compu-tronix.com/DIS6911.htm

regards,
al

[304065]

For a 73-1/2 CIS 911T I recommend the factory distributor, Pelican sells a rebuilt one for $503. Any other alternative will be more money and require more tuning and setup time. . . and for a CIS 911T won't make any more power.

[oemexp]

I have used coils from Kawasaki Ninja ZX 600 Motorcycle engines for years. You can find them on ebay for ~$15 each. They are designed to rev to 15,000 RPM. They come with boots that make them fit like they were designed to go into the plug tunnel of a 911 motor. The length is perfect. You can unscrew the coils from the control plate of an Electromotive ignition system, then wire a low current wire harnes from the ignition plate prongs to the coils. I have used a single 3 coil controller to run a twin plug system. You get the added bennefit that the plugs fire at exactly the same time.

If you do this, you have to take the tip off the plugs. These coils are designed to snap onto the threaded end of the plug.

Mark

[al lkosmal]

Mark,
which version of the ninja ZX 600 coils are you using? The older w/seprate coils/plugs or the newer with the coil housed in the spark plug housing? pix?

Al

[oemexp]

They are the later type that come from ~2005 ZX600 bikes. Here's an ebay link for a set of 4 for $45.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/05-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-600-Ignition-Coils-ZX600_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el111 6QQitemZ220161484245

I've collected boxes of them for my race engines and they work great.

The Iridium plugs that come in the "R" version of these bikes are also very good. They are 10mm plugs so you have to weld up the plug hole and re-tap. The heat ranges are very cold for high compression and you can get more compression with 2 of these small plugs in the head. The plug relief volume is much smaller.

I'm currently building a GT3 motor for my 914-6 race car so I guess I'm going back to grown-up sized plugs. I'm still going to use the bike coils with my Electromotive controller.

Mark

[al lkosmal]

Thanks mark...that's what I thought...got em.

al

[911 tweaks]

yep kos bought em !!
Good luck here !!
Al, please post pics and what you do here for us all !!
Mark, can you also post pics of what set up you have done ??
Thanks all... great info here !!
Bob

[Sluggo]

ahdoman

Don't mean to hijack your thread but very interested in the cop option.

Mark - If I understand correctly i could get rid of all the spark plug wires ( by using the Ninja ZX600 coils) and one of the 3 coil controllers and still keep the twin plug setup.

Any info/ pics would be appreciated.
Sluggo

[HawgRyder]

The COP system still has wires going to the spark plugs....but they are only low voltage wires.
You need a power and ground to each coil-on-plug unit, that comes from a controller, but they can almost be hidden in the grooves of the valve covers.
Some systems are so clean, you almost have to use a magnefier to see any wires at all!
Bob

[oemexp]

Yes. Also, Bob is correct. All you need is a single 3 coil electromotive controller. You remove the coil packs. There are 2 prongs under each coil. From the hot wire under each coil, you run 4 wires (1 each to the hot side of the twin coils on each cylinder the electromotive coil would normally fire to, 4 wires total). You also need to run the ground pin to the same 4 coils (ground pin on the coils). You do this for each of the three coil pack signal prongs on the Electromotive controller plate. Keep the second controller as a backup. I don't have pictures (sold my air cooled race engine with the system on board).

The controller charges the coils, then the ground circuit is closed when the computer wants the coils to fire. You don't have to worry about cross fire problems because the wires only transmit 12 volts. Bundle the wires into a nice harness around the engine compartment or on the motor. I make up RSR type clips to hold the coils from vibrating out of the spark plug holes. The coils are heavier than the Porsche boots and will fall out faster than the boots will.

You can put the Electromotive unit inside the car where it is cool. You don't have to worry about the legth of the wires.

Most of the Electomotive units have a place to plug in a remote rev limiter controller. I'm mounting a switch with a resister on my dash so I can switch the soft ignition cut-out to 7,500 or 8,500 or 9,500 at will. If I want to save fuel in an enduro or my GT3 motor longevity, I'll lower it. If I want to pass someone, I'll bump it up.

[gestalt1]

i guess any multi-coil type ignition controller, including efi controllers with ignition control could run these coils - right? Great find with the kawasaki coils! this could possibly be the cheapest way to get a twin plug system i've seen yet. $50-100 for coils, approx $200 for a salvaged controller, $200 for trigger wheel/sensor and $500 for head machining = $1000

[oemexp]

That's right! Only you forgot the $20,000 you will spend converting your motor to a 3.8L RSR engine becasue you have it apart and might as well do it now! That also neglects a few thousand in beer being swilled by you and a dozen friends discussing how much faster your car is going to be with twin plugs! What starts out as a "cost savings" always devolves into a much bigger expense. At least it hapens like that in my garage.

Mark

[gestalt1]

yeah, i left the $20k "while your in there" out because it really is assumed at this point!

[JohnJL]

A wiring diagram of that Ninja coil setup would be gold.

[WERK I]

Seek and you shall find.........gotta love the World Wide Web!

http://www.wiringdiagrams21.com/2006-kawasaki-ninja-650r-er6f-wiring-diagram/

Password for the PDF file is in the text on the web page (PASS).

[911 tweaks]

I can't get thw wiring diagram(s) to open... can someone please post the page(s) here now to help those in need and any future referencing.
Thanks!!
Bob

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by 911 tweaks

I can't get thw wiring diagram(s) to open... can someone please post the page(s) here now to help those in need and any future referencing.
Thanks!!
Bob

What problem are you having?

[911 tweaks]

hey dave... nothing happens when I type in the password "pass" in the box...