Ok, I found this item today while searching for ignition coil info. It is a coil targeted for ford applications but is built like the Kawasaki coil. Should be easy to get info for its operating requirements since it replaces the oem COP on many ford and Mazda applications. Its completely redesigned and cost is from $60 each. I like this setup because you can just use the standard hold down tabs used for twin plug lowers. No need to fabricate a bracket or modify your valve covers.

Main webpage: WeaponX Performance : High Performance Automotive Products
Application cross reference: http://www.weaponxperformance.com/technicalPDF/WeaponX%20Ignition%20Coil%20Interchange.pdf




http://www.weaponxperformance.com/IgnitionCoilsS2.jpg

anybody know which terminal is + and which is - on the kawi coils.

This is the harness that came with some of the coils I bought. The reds all tie together and I would quess it to be the positive (+) side

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263137177.jpg

:)

What combination of coils/drivers/2pin/4/pin works?

I thought the 2 pin coils need drivers and the 4 pin coils do not.

I like the Kawasaki (2 pin) & Toyota (4 pin) coils because of their fitment.

I will try a Electromotive HPV-1 / Kawasaki coil combination as soon as I get the parts in hand.

Len

:)

I think it would be the other way around. Two pin, no drivers built in, 4 pin w/drivers-built-in. It would interesting to find out if the 2-pin system uses an amplified DC voltage. The drivers built in to the ignition controller may have a higher output voltage (i.e. 18-24VDC). It would be easy to do if there's a Kawasaki technician around who has an oscilloscope attached to the hot-side of the lead going to the COP.

:)

Thats just what I said. The 2 pin Kawasaki coils require a ign controller/driver.

Used as a waste spark system, one HPV-1 (controller/driver) unit fires three pair of coils, one pair every 120 degrees, and each of the three outputs go to a pair of coils/spark plugs.

Len

:)

Len,
Oops, sorry 'bout that. I misread.

That's how I understand HPV-1 as well.

I test fired these coils with 12V and spark appeared weak. I have no way to measure spark voltage so it was just visual. Maybe something along the line of a MSD dis controler will do the job. Any body have one to test with?

:)

I wonder what the HPV-1 puts out for voltage?

Anyone know or measured it?

Len

:)

Your solution doesn't look like it's coil on plug. Is that right?

Are their plans for that?

Also, will it work with EFI?

Dave and Len

How would you get the voltage/current out of the HPV-1? It is only set up to produce a high voltage spark current into the regular spark plug wires, at least as normally configured.

Would you just remove the three (or six for twin plug) dual coils, and plug into what is under them?

The EFI Electromotive systems ought to work fine if the HPV-1 will do the job.

Walt (who has and likes HPV-1)

Hi Walt,
Good to hear from you. I was thinking that maybe what HPV-1 users could do is disconnect the coils and use the primary winding feed circuit to drive the COP. Have you worked with wasted spark systems before? The question I have is regarding wasted spark coil pac's. Do they have 1 primary winding and 2 secondary windings, one for the active cylinder and the other for the wasted spark cylinder?

Oh, boy - you would ask. "Worked with," for me, amounts to bolting the HPV system into my car following the instructions. I did confirm (by doing it) that you can put your own two contact connector into the sensor line successfully, but that's about it beyond plain vanilla.

The closest I have gotten to looking into the innards of this potted system is to purchase a spare coil from Checker Auto or the like, since it is from some Detriot iron from a while back. The spare is in the trailer, which is in the RV lot, so I can't even conveniently check to see how many connections there are on its backside. Maybe just two? Primary and ground? Or four, but really just two because they are doubled up for better connection? Or are there more with some fancy feedback system so the control unit can see how the coil is doing? Though if the Jacobs Energypak system is a model, that could happen by the control module sensing the positive primary current or something.

My understanding, though weak on this, is that you can't just cram two wires into one distributor output hole and make two spark plugs work off of it. I suppose that is because there will be some kind of differential resistance along the way, and one plug will get more than its share of spark, etc. This would be especially true with a wast spark, would it not? Very different impedence or whatnot between the combustion spark and the one sparking into nothing much? The distributor twin plug systems all use two coils and two separate rotors or rotor paths, don't they?

So two secondaries would make sense? If something as itty bitty as those Kawasaki units can produce the needed spark, there is plenty of room in the stock HPV units for two secondaries. Their shape doesn't look like there would be two primaries as well, though.

Maybe a guy could measure voltage, at least, by removing one of the coils and poking around with a VOM with ignition on but engine stopped. The positive ought to be always on? Compared with a CDI box and its innards and heat dissipation, the HPV base housing does not look like it steps up voltage much, if at all.

Maybe Steve Weiner knows? He once advised me to make sure all the coil packs were well grounded, which I did with ring connectors under one of the fasteners for each coil, cabled together and to a chassis ground. Doesn't quite fit with the notion that opening and closing a ground to the coil is what makes them tick. Maybe he meant the whole unit.

Walt

Walt,
I found a picture of an EDIS 4 cylinder coil pack on this web site; extraEFI in the U.K.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263562351.jpg

I am assuming the same principles apply in the GM pack as it does in the Ford.

This looks like it is going to be more of a challenge than I originally thought.

Not related to Walt's questions, but I did find a diagram for the Audi/VW COP's at the same web site listed above. If it's been posted before, I apologize.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263563147.jpg

The wasted spark coil packs use only one secondary per 2 spark plugs creating a single electrical circuit sparking both plugs in series off the same secondary. The energy used and voltage loss to jump the spark gap on the non-ignition (wasted) side is small relative to the ignition side. You can run COP as a wasted spark system but now the two coil secondaries would be working as independent circuits rather than in series, just triggered by the same source at the same time which would allow you to run both plugs on the same cylinder with the same ignitor or trigger. You can't really run both plugs on one cylinder from the same wasted spark coil effectively.

Steve,
Thanks. So looking at the EDIS coil two posts prior; posts 1&4 are electrically the same point (sharing the same winding) and 2&3 are electrically the same point?

Just started to read this excellent post, and I want to be sure I am on the right page.
I run Motec, with Bosch coils packs for twin plug, and would like to go COP if it is smart and more reliable.
I have an ignition expander off the M48 ECU, which runs to a 6 channel ignitor.
The coil packs now gets 12V from the Ignition switch, and the signals from the ignitor (6). I would like to remove the coil packs, and run COP using the same outputs from the ignitor. From what I am reading, this will work?

I am leaning towards the Kawa COP setup, two wire should be the way for me to go, I think?

Is there any negative drawbacks using these coils?

I think that's the $64,000 question with all our current ignitions. It all boils down to what the ignition drivers in the Kawa ignition feed to the Kawa COP coils. Are they using for "battery" voltage.....13.8vdc or a variation of an amplified DC Voltage.

Important point to remember too is if the intended coils(COP) impedance will have on the driving circuitry. I seem to remember a thread about Perma-tune ignitions burning out because the wrong coil was used??????

No, they are not the same. The two posts create a closed loop negative to positive.