EFI for 82 3.0 SC

[SchnellSchweitz]

Hi gang,

I'm new here. Just purchased an '82 Targa. Can't believe I own a "Porsche!"

My friends are soooo jealous...

Anyway, I'm in the middle of my engine rebuild and I'm considering replacing the CSI with an EFI from Blitz. I've seen some older posts on this, but curious if there are any more folks to offer input on this conversion.

I also would like to know what the total conversion is costing these days. I see the parts go for around $1700 total. But are there other parts I will need.. such as a new air box or other stuff?

Thanks

[lucittm]

How well did your '82 run with the stock CIS? The money part of the EFI conversion is the easy part. You will spend a good percentage of your life on earth getting it dialed in. But then it will all seem worth it.

Mark

[175mph951]

go with a megasquirt kit like from bitz racing....trouble free easy install and once its dialed in you never need to mess with it again....turn the key and starts and idles on first crank every time....plus throttle response and fuel economy is much better....

the megasquirt efi isnt at all bad to dial in...it actually has an autotune function that helps you get a good baseline to start with.

[Supi]

Originally Posted by 175mph951

go with a megasquirt kit like from bitz racing....trouble free easy install and once its dialed in you never need to mess with it again....turn the key and starts and idles on first crank every time....plus throttle response and fuel economy is much better....

the megasquirt efi isnt at all bad to dial in...it actually has an autotune function that helps you get a good baseline to start with.

What is actually the impact to fuel economy ? I am having a kit from Bitzracing waiting the installation ? 10% down or more ?

Sami

[175mph951]

Supi:
ive never calculated it but i did feel that i was gasing up less....the injectors are only opening once or twice per ignition cycle....not continuous as in CIS...definitaly makes a difference...youll be very pleased with the kit

[SchnellSchweitz]

It sounds like there are pros and cons to it... but overall it is probably the right thing to do for me.

My Targa came with an inoperable engine... I have never turned the key on it so I have can't reference my previous "CIS" experience. To me, the CIS system looks cumbersome and antiquated. I'm sure I will draw some abuse for saying this... I am an admitted rookie here. I like the idea of a more simple fuel delivery system.

Does anybody know if the EFI system eliminates the accumulator and fuel filter? Does this conversion require a new air system? If so, any recommended products?

Thanks again for your input... positive and negative.

[kenikh]

There is really no downside - it is simpler. Tuning takes some time, but as long as you can handle a lptop it is simple enough. You can keep using the stock airbox if you like and I prefer the stock look actually. It gets rid of all of the other weird bits like Warm up Regulator and fuel distributor since you are shooting fuel from a rail directly into the runners. I say do it - if your CIS is a disaster, it willa ctually be cheaper to do the Bitz kit than fix the CIS. And to be clear, you should expect BETTER, not worse fuel economy.

[pete-stevers]

What is a link to the blitz kits, or their web site

[Won]

http://www.bitzracing.com/

[JohnJL]

You are going to need a new intake, usually a Carrera or an ITB kit. I've done it with Megasquirt and then replaced with Adaptronic. Its not that hard, but does take some tuning. Once its set though you're good to go.

The Bitz instruction manual is complete and illustrated. You leave your pump, accumulator and a (replacement recommended!) stock filter.

Spring for a knock sensor "while you're in there." Megasquirt can handle that.

[roberthornn]

thanks for the info!

[175mph951]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

You are going to need a new intake, usually a Carrera or an ITB kit. I've done it with Megasquirt and then replaced with Adaptronic. Its not that hard, but does take some tuning. Once its set though you're good to go.

The Bitz instruction manual is complete and illustrated. You leave your pump, accumulator and a (replacement recommended!) stock filter.

Spring for a knock sensor "while you're in there." Megasquirt can handle that.

you dont need a new intake....bitz sells pieces and shows how to convert a cis manifold, done it on 4 different cars works perfect

[sc_rufctr]

I'm considering this for my own car.

I have a 1978 SC and it runs good but if any part of the CIS fails it would be hundreds of dollars at the least.

For instance a new fuel distributor would be about $1000 (Aussie Dollars)

My ideal set-up would be the PMO ITBs with the "Bitz racing" Megasquirt kit.
I'm guessing it would pay for itself in the long run with the better fuel consumption and more horse power.

Spend some time at the web site. You can sign up in the Yahoo group as well. Lots of good information...

http://www.bitzracing.com/index.html
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bitzracing/

[Aurel]

This thread brings a question: once you have done a CIS to EFI conversion, can you go with more agressive cam profile than 964, or is it really the dome shaped of the CIS pistons (and not the CIS induction itself) that limits the cam you can use?

[kenikh]

Originally Posted by Aurel

This thread brings a question: once you have done a CIS to EFI conversion, can you go with more agressive cam profile than 964, or is it really the dome shaped of the CIS pistons (and not the CIS induction itself) that limits the cam you can use?

Possibly, but still run into the "common plenum" reversion issues. It takes ITBs to really get aggressive, since they block reversion low in the intake tract.

[euro911sc]

IRRC, the domes in the CIS pistons are not very thick and cutting valve pockets, while it can be done, is tricky. So your max lift is limited. With out the CIS you get rid of the overlap pulse issue so you could increse the overlap.

You could certainly replace them Then you could go radical ... but that is $$s

-Michael

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by SchnellSchweitz

It sounds like there are pros and cons to it... but overall it is probably the right thing to do for me.

My Targa came with an inoperable engine... I have never turned the key on it so I have can't reference my previous "CIS" experience. To me, the CIS system looks cumbersome and antiquated. I'm sure I will draw some abuse for saying this... I am an admitted rookie here. I like the idea of a more simple fuel delivery system.

Does anybody know if the EFI system eliminates the accumulator and fuel filter? Does this conversion require a new air system? If so, any recommended products?

Thanks again for your input... positive and negative.

That was my impression the first time I got a chance to look at the CIS in depth. The Bitz kit looks like a great way to EFI without having to reinvent the wheel and do a lot of changes to your engine. OTOH, EFI conversion opens an enormous door for changes including electronic distributor-less ignition and future performance enhancements. There can be a significant time investment in getting your tuning correct for which a wide-band O2 exhaust sensor is a necessity.
I am running my EFI without an accumulator but with a stock fuel filter (Carrera 3.2 setup).

[911Mac]

Lots of good info here, but you need to understand that there are many variations possible when converting your car to Megasquirt EFI. You can use the Tbitz kit or design your own system which is much more involved.

You can read all about Megasquirt here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

There are two different controllers, MSI and MSII. There are also different versions of code that can be loaded that add various functions. For example, the MSI standard code doesn't support EDIS, but you can load a version that adds that.

The Tbitz kit is designed to use the original intake runners, airbox, and throttle body. It uses the MSI v3 controller with custom code that eliminates the need for a TPS (throttle position sensor). So if you want to load a different version of the code later, you'll have to add a TPS. Not that big of a deal, really depends on your throttle body. But if all you're looking for is a good solid EFI, then there's no need to change anything.

I've been running a Tbitz kit for 4 or 5 years on my daily driver, an 82SC. I see a 2 to 3 MPG increase over the CIS (mostly highway driving). I added a wideband O2 sensor early on which lets me set the target AFR a bit richer for better performance. I have had no problems, starts easily hot or cold every time.

Your engine isn't currently running, if it has other issues you're not aware of it could make an EFI conversion much more difficult. You should also be aware that once you've done the conversion, the local Porsche garage won't be much help resolving problems related to the EFI.

If you still want to go the Tbitz route, download the installation manual from their web site. It explains everything about installing the kit. It can be done with the engine in the car or with an engine drop.

[flat6pilot]

Just finished a TBitz Racing EFI conversion myself: (1980 ROW SC, European Racing Headers, M&K 2 in 2 out muff, MSD Ignition)

[SchnellSchweitz]

Wow.... can you share what your costs were?

That's a really nice look! :-)