Re-checked the valve cover and gasket and that's OK. Pulled the #1 intake rocker and reinstalled and that checked OK. I do have RSR o-rings installed on the rocker shafts. Since I have twin plugs, I pulled the lead to the top #1 cylinder so I could watch where the oil started from as I suspected the rocker shaft. I started the motor and watched. It is not the shaft but further up towards the head. Damn!

Looks like the cam tower is leaking at the head seal. I spent a lot of time with this part of the assembly and this really pisses me off because the only way to get to it is pull the motor back out. Oh well, I'm getting pretty good at it by now. I used 574 here. I know Henry suggests something different at the joint; I think I'll search his thread of ultimate seals.

On a brighter note and since the oil leak didn't seam catastrophic, I went ahead with the 25 minute break-in at high idle so I could use the remaining life of my break-in oil. As I said before, this motor is very quick to rev and has an awesome sound even with the stock exhaust. My headers are on the way and those will go on with the motor pull.

Lindy

Lindy,

Could it be the cam shaft seal or gasket? Maybe the gasket caught an edge. Sorry to hear about your leak.

Shane

Shane,

It doesn't appear to be coming from the chain box gasket area but higher. When I pulled the top plug and ran it the oil came from above that joint and not the rocker shaft.

By the way and FYI, if you plan to renew the bushings in the throttle linkage bell crank located on the transmission, the procedure requires an engine drop or at least a partial. Ask me how I know.

Lindy

LOL, BTDT on that one. Looks like it would be sooooo easy from below, doesn't it!:rolleyes:

Great work on getting motor running!!!!

Lindy, are you a mind reader?
 

This is crazy! Late last night I was out enjoying my engine "breaking it in". About a block from home the left CV joint came undone, I had torqued the hell out of it but somehow the bolts backed out and one lone bolt sheered letting everything go.

So me in my moment of brilliance, decided to tie up the loose end of the CV so it wouldn't hit the ground. When I towed the car the rope caught the throttle rod and twisted it to hell and busted the throttle linkage stud on the bell housing and bent the crap out of the one in the carburetor manifold. All of my carb linkage is bent to ****.

Well, it was fun while it lasted! I really didn't want to hijack your thread but it is scary how you mentioned this.

Shane

So I guess I should keep the FYI about the crank and rods to myself?

Lindy

When I did mine I used a scotch brite to clean the old sealant off. I used liberal amounts of 574. I brushed on 1/8" of sealant on all the head to cam-tower surfaces, I did have a couple of small scratches in places but nothing that would catch a fingernail.

At least you have been able to run the cams in and you know that the rest of the motor is sealed.

Also, I am not sure if it matters but I torqued the cam towers to the heads and then put the final torque on the heads to the case.

Hope this helps. Shane

Shane,

Thanks for the advice. I was talking to Arron at Rennwerks and he mentioned the same process. I re-read Waynes manual and it says the same. Gee, you'd think that I would have caught that. Oh well, good practice I guess.

Sorry to hear about your CV joint, I know I'm going to double check mine! Did you have a chance to see what your new motor is going to run like? I'll bet it rips.

Lindy

Yes, it is scary I put about 100 miles on it yesterday, It is crazy fast and I havnt spun it over 5K, I am beginning to wonder what the hell I was thinking. It accelerates with some crazy G forces. I truly cant believe the power. Sorry I am rambling, but at first I had my timing way way advanced, the I figured out I had it 30 degrees advanced (I was using the wrong mark on the pulley even though I had marked it), its back down to 12 now and Wow!.

The other mistake I had made was I put my reverse pin back-wards and my lights wouldn't go out. And I had hooked my alternator up wrong, I have it sorted now. But I started rushing the closer I got and started going from memory rather than the book.

I had an experienced mechanic right with me during my build, so every time I got going he was there to check and provide guidance if not I probably wouldn't have got it done right.

Once I got the block back in my garage I started getting squirrly, my mind started swimming the closer I got to starting the motor, I was jumping from one thing to another, tinkering with somthing else, it was hard to focus.

If I did this again I would make a condenced checklist with step by step instructions on a huge poster board so I could put big checkmarks by each item as I completed it, and probably take a valium.

Turns out you were right. The gasket at the chain box got pushed out some how. I talked with Arron and Henry Schmidt and they both said this is not uncommon and that joint is under pressure from the cam oiling circuit which is why it was bleeding like a "stuck pig". Anyway, motor out, fix the gasket and install it correctly with a setting sealer like 574, re-time left cam and button it back up.

I'm waiting on my headers to show up before I put it back in the car. It just looks a lot easier to install them with the motor on the stand. I'll try to get some photos posted this afternoon.

Lindy

Motor in yet?

Any plans on dyno tuning? Really curious to see what your numbers turn out to be.

Yes, motor went back in a couple of weeks ago. I discovered a couple of transmission issues that I think are relatively minor but we will have to see. I will have it dynoed for final tuning at Protechnik in Houston. It's fat now but it does run very well. I don't jump on first gear much but second without banging the clutch will light the tires. Granted; I have stock 7" Fuchs and looking for 8's but it spins the tires without trying. It is a little on the peaky side once past 4,000 but I like that. Below 4,000 you can't tell it's not a stocker unless you are in the vicinity of the muffler outlet. You can feel every cylinder fire.

I've only run it up to about 6,000 and shut it down because I ran out of road. It's not licensed yet so I'm somewhat illegal until I get it inspected and screw on the plates. Performance wise it's everything I hoped it would be to this point. I'm looking forward to the dyno numbers; whatever they may be.

Lindyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1271888809.jpg

What length/mileage of break in process are you allowing for? Everyone seems to have their own voodoo.

I'm not a big believer in "break-in". When we were building race motors for motorcycles it was pretty much warm it up and run the hell out of it. Those were the motors that would win races. I'm going that route and if it doesn't work, oh well it's just a toy and I'll tear it apart again. I did do the 20 minute thing and then change the oil. All the moly lube when building it can't be too good for the cylinder / ring seating, so I dumped it and changed the filter. It was pretty ugly oil when it came out.

Lindy

+1. What i did on my SS build last year.

That engine bay has to put a smile on ur face.

Those of you who break in this way, about what were the leakdown numbers on your respective engines?

I guess I have been too paranoid with Ferrari engines to really tear into them right after the warm up. I run them for 20 minutes, drain the oil. Restart, go for a short easy drive (20-30 miles)staying below 5k constantly accelerating and decelerating so the vacuum wears in the rings a bit. Shut down and allow the engine to cool and go for another drive the following day, this time a little harder. Generally speaking I take it easy the first 200 miles. Always interesting seeing what others do and what they have success with.

+1 on the running the hell out of it. I just got through refreshing a 944 motor and looked into that dilemma, including the epic Re-ring Alusils thread, and one of the articles was a back to back comparison of sport bikes broken in lightly "as per manufacturer's specification" and another broken in on the track...the track run one had better compression and maintained high compression longer in its life. At least for silicon/aluminum cylinder alloys like Alusil, they said most of the break-in, as much as 80%, will happen in the first 30-40 miles. Freshly lapped Alusil has exposed silicon particles that are "edgy" and give the cylinder surface extra abrasiveness needed for ring break-in. The particles dull, giving way to a smooth, durable surface. The running to hell ensures the rings are uniformly pressed onto the walls as they would be at full load and makes for a better fit so they don't just glaze in spots, and to ensure they break in all the way around within that "roughness" window. Hard on throttle to redline, then shut and let vacuum flush the cyls with oil. All I can say personally is it seemed to work really well for me...not the slightest bit of oil smoke and it runs strong for a mostly stock motor and still true after 6500 miles. Breaking in other types of cylinders/pistons may do better with different techniques.

I don't want to sound like the FOS water cooled guy butting in, but I was browsing the 911 rebuilds for fun and just wanted to share my 2 cents. SmileWavy
This forum is where all the cool projects are!

A few pics of new fiberglass stuff being fitted. What do you all think?

Lindyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1272402203.jpg
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Here are a couple from the rear.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1272402887.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1272402900.jpg

I like the rear. Not so sure about the front.

This is one good reason why I never get tired of reading this thread!

love to break that in!! And about break in methods, air cooled aircraft engines are run 45 min at max power climb then 30 min at 1/2 power, oil change and there good to go! Don't baby it the rings need to seat hard.

Something tells me she's WELL past broken in.

Lindy

Hi,
I just ran across this and something struck me... anyway, just in case I overlooked something. You are using 95mm P's & C's with twin plug ignition?

That is correct. 95mm Mahle cylinders with JE 10.5 : 1 95mm pistons.

Lindy

Great thread. What pulley wheel did you end up settling on?

I used the upper pulley half from Henry and still have the stock crank pulley. I'm going to change that to a Supertec also in the near future.

Lindy

Good to know - I'll have to ping Henry on acquiring those bits as well. Thanks!

Okay, quick question: if you are going to limit the rpm to a speed below the power band for the cam, why put the DC80 cam?

I used a GE60 not GE80. It's chipped for 8,000 in the MSD box but I don't run it much past 7,200 or so for the time being. I'm still fine tuning the Webers and finding the right timing.

Lindy

Just wondered where I can get a dizzy like yours... is it a modded stocker?
I've been looking at the different twin plug setups and was thinking of the Clewett one for the programability but if there is a less expensive way to go...

+2 on running it hard for break-in. I beat the hell out of them (keeping it well under red-line). Found that if I don't rings don't tend to seat as well.

My typical break in is 20 minutes on the track under 6k RPM.

The distributor came from Aaron Burnham @ Rennwerks, 805-240-6931 It's a modified stock SC distributor that uses a Jag V-12 cap and custom rotor. Henry Schmidt @ Supertec has some stake in this as well. I looked at the Clewett crank fire ignition but I am running carbs and the electronic stuff does not afford a very big plug gap and they are susceptible to fouling the plugs, so I'm told. The twin plug distributor runs two MSD coils fired by an MSD 6-AL box. It's an awesome set-up.

Lindy

The Burn Bros dizzy is about as far as you can go in terms of features and quality. It is a lovely device.

What are your thoughts on the JB racing distributor? Mine should be here soon.

From post 113 I looked at the Clewett crank fire ignition but I am running carbs and the electronic stuff does not afford a very big plug gap and they are susceptible to fouling the plugs, so I'm told.

You should be careful to who and what you listen to when people are telling you things.

When there is a problem fouling plugs, the underlying problem is too much fuel. With a carburetor, too much fuel is caused by incorrect jetting. If you mask the problem with a large spark plug gap, you still have carburetor that is not properly set up.

When a carburetor is set up properly, you will find more bottom and mid-range torque and there is no problem fouling spark plugs. Why would you want to mask more bottom and mid range torque?

Fix the real problem of too much fuel and the real benefits of the crank fire ignition can be realized. BTW, the correct mixture will also help a CD ignition.

Richard

Richard, good to see you posting on here! Your products and company are highly regarded!

I will be in contact again with you shorlty for a Tec3R.

Everything we have got from Richard and his advice has proven to be great!

Cheers

I did not mean to say that the crank fired ignition was no good, just not what I chose. Richard, you and I actually had a conversation and I was very close to using your stuff especially in light of the free plug wires you were offering just before the end of last year. That would have certainly been less money than what I had to spend to do what I did. The dizzy alone cost more that your entire set-up. Then, of course, I had to add the MSD, coils and plug wires.

As far as the plug fouling notion, you are right that the plugs should not have fouling problems if the induction system is set up properly. My problem was more about the type of plug I wanted to run and the gap it has. I'm using an NGK plug with twin grounds that don't let you set the "gap" in a traditional way. There is some adjust-ability, but not enough to get into the comfort zone (.035) your set-up seems to need.

My decision to use the dizzy arrangement was based on my specific choices and not the quality or performance of your product.

Lindy

The systems I sell are only a couple of what is available. A gap of .035 is not unreasonable for a street car. The multi ground plugs are good for street engines and provide good exposure for the spark to ignite the charge.

One of the details that people often over look is the larger the spark plug gap, is the higher stress on all the ignition components. The larger the gap and/or higher the compression ratio, the higher the voltage requirement to light the plug. This considerably higher voltage breaks down ignition components. Spark plug wires or the resisters in the spark plug connectors being the weakest link in the system. For the daily driver, this means shorter intervals between service.

There is a point of diminishing returns on large spark plug gaps. For most engines, the HP difference between a spark plug gap .028 and .035 is 0. On a CD system, once the charge is lit, the spark plug is done. Where additional power happens is after the charge is lit, and combustion chamber dynamics and spark duration can play into the equation.

Richard

Update
 

OK, I know this is the engine building forum but here's an update on the Grenade. I had Tru-Design build some 9" wheels for the rear and moved the 7's to the front. Also had the FB bits painted and installed them. Here's a couple of shots.

Lindyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1278717523.jpg
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