Top End and Reseal

[gregwils]

I cleaned today for a little over 2 hours. I purchased a few bottles of Simple Green Motorsports Cleaner that's safe on aluminum, wanted to be environmentally friendly. However, it's not as effective as I would have liked. Fortunately, my local Advance Auto is having a sale on brake cleaner this month - 2 for 1. I purchased a case for about $20, going back for another. It's stinky, but it does work. I made a first pass on one case half, both cam towers and both chain cases. I got a deep tub and scrubbed away, then mixed the residue with old oil from my daily driver which I will return to Advance.

Not done yet, first pass only, but much improved.



Also, found a good use for an old cassette tape holder. Yes, I can put them back exactly how they were removed.

[Carrerax]

Been following your rebuild. Im actually doing the same thing but contemplating splitting the cases. Are you glad you split them or should you have just kept it together?

[gregwils]

My intermediates were definitely bad, and they needed replaced. I also felt like it was difficult to keep minor dirt and debris out of the case as I worked on the p&c and top end, so splitting allowed me to make sure it was clean. Finally, as others advised me, I now know the condition of my crank. Generally speaking, I would say "yes" it was worth it and not too much additional work - couple of days of work - but, I will probably hold final judgment until the case is resealed and not leaking once running.

Are you thinking of splitting the case on your '70? There may be other considerations when splitting a mag case, but I'm not the expert.

[Carrerax]

No, it is a 1978 3.0 that Im working on. It has 108k. It had 2 broken studs so I pulled it down to the case. The p/c's look great. I sent the heads out but really dont want to split the cases unless it is necessary.

[gregwils]

I had the same dilemma, in the end I decided to split it. I would suggest it really depends on your expectations for the motor going forward. It you want another 108k, it might be worth the effort to split it just to reseal it and replace the intermediates. If you only drive a few thousand (less than 5) miles each year, then it may not be necessary.

[ricardoc]

Good luck with that!

[Flat6pac]

Bottom end gasket set, a few hours and good sealant and you know what you have. Nothing worse than having a leak after you were near where its leaking. All about hinesight.

Bruce

[Carrerax]

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

Bottom end gasket set, a few hours and good sealant and you know what you have. Nothing worse than having a leak after you were near where its leaking. All about hinesight.

Bruce

I know you are right but I am a bit intimidated to take it that far down. On a good note, I was checking my p/c's and found out that they are the Max Moritz 3.2 9.7:1 p/c's! I thought it was just a 3.0 but turns out it is a 3.2ss! It all looks perfect! Im so stoked! Anyway, maybe I will split the cases. Ill read Waynes a few more times to build up confidence

[gregwils]

Originally Posted by Carrerax

I know you are right but I am a bit intimidated to take it that far down.

No need to be. If you made it to the case, the most complex part of the disassembly is behind you.

A 3.2 SS. How fun!

[Carrerax]

Originally Posted by gregwils

No need to be. If you made it to the case, the most complex part of the disassembly is behind you.

A 3.2 SS. How fun!

I will probably do it. Just fearing a bunch of additional money....bearings, cam chains....etc.......

[Flat6pac]

You ve already have Max p/c so there has been someone there. Splitting the case will tell you if you have a cut crank, or if the bearings have been changed or if there is dirt streaks on the crank and mains, change the intermediates and chain rails, use a good sealant, I prefer case centerline, hondabond2 or yamabond2 follow the directions. Heads to the cam carrier I prefer aircraft permatex 1000, and locktite 574 for the lower chain boxes and covers, breather seal. The bottom end gaskets set is relatively inexpensive but you get to reseal the up 20 year old sealants.

Bruce

[TibetanT]

Bruce is right! If you have come this far, why not take it down a little further to make it all perfect.

Greg: What a wonderful job you are doing with the clean-up. Did you happen to notice what might be causing the scratches near the intermediate shaft bearing? Are the chains doing that? (Scratches lower left of where the intermediate bearing you have circled in the picture.) Just wondering.

[88-diamondblue]

Do the ARP rod bolts as the Porsche ones are a one time use bolt. With the 3.2's having 9mm bolts they are a weak point in the drive train. Much better chance of survival in case of an accidental over-rev.

[Carrerax]

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

You ve already have Max p/c so there has been someone there.

Bruce

On mine, I dont think it has ever been split. The MM P/C's have been on there a very long time by looking at how nasty the motor looked. Im guessing maybe it was alusil and they were replaced 20 years ago. Either way, I will split it. I just hope there arent any suprises. In an effort to stop polluting this thread with my stuff, here is a link to my car rebuild with a few engine pix on the last page. I will try to update the engine build there.

Here is my new/old project.....Lilly

[gregwils]

Ed - No, I don't know the cause of those nicks. There seem to be quite a few in numerous locations near the chains - inside chain cases, inside case near guides, etc. The tensioners were a bear to compress and oil squirted out of them when I compressed them to remove. Plus, the chains were tight when I removed the chain covers.

This is where the novice in me is lost. I don't even know if nicks are normal or not.

[mdmiller911]

Nice progress Greg. Subscribed If you haven't already met him, you might want to take a ride down to Pete's European Techniques and talk to Pete Delmer about some of your questions. When I was first looking into buying the 77', I drove around to talk to all of the local P- mechanics ( Pete, George Riggins, Andy Bittenbinder, etc...) and although they all seemed knowledgeable, It seemed that Pete had the most to say about rebuilding engines. He offered alot of info about where novice builders, (and some pros) make mistakes and what he does to fix the situation. In fact, he is the only person I have talked to that has said "911 engines when built right do NOT leak oil!"

As it turned out, before my 77' was sold to the PO in 1999, he rebuild and modified the engine. It has not leaked a drop since I bought it 07' nor did the PO complain. Let me know if you need any help...Yuengling ok?

Mike

[Carrerax]

Originally Posted by mdmiller911

As it turned out, before my 77' was sold to the PO in 1999, he rebuild and modified the engine. It has not leaked a drop since I bought it 07' nor did the PO complain. Let me know if you need any help...Yuengling ok?

Mike

Yuengling works for me. Stop by after seeing Greg. Im only about 5 hours west on I-70

[gregwils]

Thanks Mike. Funny, but shouldn't I be offering the Yuengling. I know of Pete, but haven't met him yet. I do plan to take my car there to ask him a few questions. I am usually working on Saturday's, you're welcome to come by anytime, just give me a heads up in advance. I probably have another two weekends of cleaning, before I reseal. I am going to use threebond /yamabond/whateverbond to seal the case. It's not what our host sells, but it seems to be the favored sealant these days and I bought everything else from Wayne.

I might take you up on your offer of assistance when I sealing the case. I am afraid that I won't be able to get everything torqued down in a reasonable time frame by myself.

[Carrerax]

Greg, I just wanted to thank you for the encouragement. I split my case last night. It looked similar to yours. The intermediates were the same. My mains look great but the thrust bearings are a bit more worn. My rod bearings have a bit of wear so I am just going to replace all the bearings while Im in there. I will probably send my rods out to Rennsport to get rebuilt. I will update my other thread when I have a little time. Thanks again!

[gregwils]

Mark - Looks like you are now doing the entire bottom too. Given the amount of time and effort you have in Lilly, it's probably fitting. You won't have to open it up again for a long time, if ever. Plus, when you do twin plug it at a later date, you'll have confidence the bottom is in good shape. I subscribed to Lilly, so I'll follow your progress. Have fun.