3.0 SC HP Expectation - post modification

[kenikh]

Jamie, you beat me to it! Jamie and I are doing an experiment with my motor on the effect of going totally OCD and coating everything to control frictional and combustion related haet. We have coated or will coat:

Ceramic heat coating:
Piston crowns
Valve faces
Combustion chamber
Exhaust ports

Dry film lubricant:
Piston skirts
Piston pins
valve springs
valve shafts
camshafts
intermediate shaft gears
cam chains
cam sprockets
rod bearings
main bearings
i-shaft bearing
oil pump internals

Oil shedding coating:
Piston undersides

Other trick anti-fricction bits:
Craig Garrett's teflon bronze NASCAR rocker bushings

The motor will have full EMS w/ data logging, so we'll be able to get per cylinder CHT and EGT in addition to oil temp and wideband O2 data. Jamie has been amazed at the AFRs he's been able to get with his motor and it will be interesting to see what effect going all the way will have.

Last note: I recommend everyone with JEs to hand work their pistons to break the sharp edges on the crown and valve pockets to reduce hot spots. My assertion is that with coatings, trick rocker busings and this piston work, a motor can steal an additional half point of CR in terms of knock threshhold and at the very least allow much more aggressive timing.

[lindy 911]

If you choose to do your plain bearings (main and rod) make sure you sand any residual off the back side of the bearing. It can add to the total dimension of the bearing thickness and can cause a tight fit when the crank is installed. Also the rods can get tight as well if the back sides of the bearings aren't cleaned up. I have always used a 400 grit wet / dry paper to cross-hatch the back side and the saddle to get a better bite on the case or rod when installed. I have used this method in 1000 cc race motors that see 16000 revs and it works well.

Also, as Kenik points out, any time you can reduce a sharp edge on the piston crown or the head combustion chamber, you increase the reliability by reducing the build up of heat in critical hot spots. A sharp edge will concentrate heat and cause detonation (pre-ignition) that would otherwise not happen without the sharp edge. Lots of little details to look forward to!



Lindy

[kenikh]

One more coating tidbt I neglected to mention: oil shed coating rods. I am not doing this as my R&R moly rods came coated out of the box.

[jpnovak]

No turning back now!

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Yoda

[lindy 911]

Jamie,

I think that's Henry's line! Har Har I'm a little surprised he hasn't chimed in here. Henry, are you still alive or has that girl friend of yours worn you out?

Lindy

[MrPerkles]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

270 Hp at the rear wheels with GE60 cams at 6,000 rpm; Wow! That kind of debunks the notion that these cams require high revs to make power. Can you share the torque numbers?

Thanks!

Lindy

Lindy my engine finally made 285bhp at 7200,I decided to cut it off short as above 7200 i was getting dips in the curve but it was still pulling hard and I think 300bhp is acheavable
The very experienced Porsche dyno guy said this could be tuned out using longer intakes or true equal length headers.
The wasted spark stopped me from getting a proper torque reading but overall im very happy with the way the engine has turned out so far,it pulls like a train and revs like mad

[jpnovak]

Great news! glad to hear you have your tuning issues worked out.

Originally Posted by MrPerkles

Lindy my engine finally made 285bhp at 7200,I decided to cut it off short as above 7200 i was getting dips in the curve but it was still pulling hard and I think 300bhp is acheavable
The very experienced Porsche dyno guy said this could be tuned out using longer intakes or true equal length headers.
The wasted spark stopped me from getting a proper torque reading but overall im very happy with the way the engine has turned out so far,it pulls like a train and revs like mad

[MrPerkles]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

Great news! glad to hear you have your tuning issues worked out.

With thanks to you Jamie,wiring the twin plug and doing the cold start map made me go giddy for a while.
Need some serious running in miles now at WOT to find some free bhp's

[MrPerkles]

heres my spec ,I have to give a massive thanks to Mike at mbengineering for helping me build this engine hes a legend

DIY boat tailed and flowed C3 alloy case,oil mods
DIY mooned original Nikasil barrels
10.5:1 JEs DIY smoothed out edges,CR measured at Mike Bainbridges
Camgrinder DC62 cams on a 108 lobe
Pauter light weight moly rods and ARP bolts
DIY ported c3 heads 41mm in 38mm out,new guides etc
race springs ,titanium retainers
TRE unequal length ,38mm equal length headers
M&K double bass box
48mm taper Jenveys
Omex ecu running wasted spark twin plug & crankfire
Mapped by a god at Chip Wizards
Sachs HD clutch kit,close ratio 1st-4th gearing

and heres a short vid of the final runs,god I love 3 litre engines

[lvporschepilot]

Fantastic sounding 3L engine you have there. Amazing how close together Porsche and Ferrari are with their bhp numbers with 3L engines with similar mods. A 2v 308 engine with just about equivalent modifications made 317bhp at the flywheel, but at 8400rpm. The conversion to ITB injection really helped driveability compared to Webers. Congratulations to you though. What an engine.

back on topic

[lindy 911]

46 Webers for sale by MBruns today for $1500 including manifolds and linkage. Killer deal!

Lindy

[D911SC]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

46 Webers for sale by MBruns today for $1500 including manifolds and linkage. Killer deal!

Lindy

Got to be quick for that deal!! Missed it by about an hour.

[D911SC]

Update - just picked up some 98mm cyclinders. These are 3.2 Carrera's that have been bored and plated.

So for now I have pistons, cylinders, cams, SSI's and dual outlet dansk sport. Just needing PMO 46mm carbs and I'll book it in with my engine builder - he is going to look after all the other stuff (ie. rod bolts, machining, head work, ignition, etc).

Cost so far - $4K.

Anyone got some carbs for sale let me know. I hear Webers are good but I have my eyes set on some PMO's.

[haycait911]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

Coatings are good! I coated every moving part in the top end of my motor as well.

My motor runs very cool and very efficient. I definitely think it is worth it.

I bought a set of pistons from Jamie that had been cer-met coated on the crowns. I have no way of quantifying the effect, but..............


a hot rod 3.0 dynoed at 250hp with no front cooler and it's never gotten over 220. this in a climate where summer temps hang in the 30 degree celsius range daily. I've checked the gauge and sender for calibration and they're dead on. I do run a little rich but not enough to have much of an effect.

I boroscoped the piston tops the other day and they look perfect. is it possible that carbon has a tougher time sticking to the coating than bare aluminum?

[jpnovak]

Don, Interesting to see a datapoint from the borescope that shows less carbon on the crown. One of the benefits of the ceramic coatings is a reduction in carbon buildup and deposition. I followed your build and am happy you like the results.

yes, the coatings reduce temperature. I have similar results in my warmed over 3.2SS here in triple digit TX heat.

[carslutt]

Originally Posted by tom1394racing

Yeah....Mine cost as much as my daughter's wedding :-)

funny,....... im getting married later they year and my not even started yet motor build is looking to crush the budget set for the wedding. ahha...... i mean, the motor only cost 5 buks, after all it doesn't even have an radiator right.

great info guys, glad i found this post im on the fence as to what i should do w/ my stock parts (use or sell) and what other parts to mix into the motor. thanks for all the tech info

[D911SC]

Hope you don't mind me digging up my old thread but I am so close to completing my rebuild that I cannot contain my excitement any longer.

PMO 46's and Dansk Sport are yet to go on, but as you can see there is not much more to go. The car itself is ready so in about 1 week's time I should be driving it for the first time in 26 months.

[D911SC]

[joetiii]

Very nice looking. I am starting to get that anxious feeling myself on a 3.2 short stroke rebuild. Let us know when she roars to life!

[jsveb]

Looks absolutely fantastic - congrats!

looking forward to the break-in video