1992 964 Engine rebuild - reasonable approach?

[kandhmfg]

Hey Roy-

Seems we are at the same spot, just got my case back together Mon night. Was getting ready to install pistons/cyls yesterday found a cracked compression ring. Had to order a new one. Hope to have it by Thurs/Fri. Back at it this weekend in the garage.

Good luck with the rest of the build.

Erik

[Sboxin]

Making progress slow but sure...

1-2-3 pistons, cylinders, heads and cam housing installed...

I now know why the JE pistons are disliked - pin clips are a bugger to get in place because the Stromski tool doesn't fit into the recess on the side of the piston like the Mahle...
(as told to me by Roland doing the work on this engine- I trust his hands better than mine) ---- Also a quirk in the order of piston cylinder install = because the pistons are 102MM (3.8L size) in a 964 3.6L case the order of install needs to be #3-#2 pistons and cylinders then rotate #1 to TDC and install piston and cylinder - the large size of the rings keep the piston from going into the case...if that makes sense...



Close up of EBS valve springs and TI retainers



Well, moving along --- we don't want to drive this engine until September or later anyway -- 116 yesterday -- feels like Death Valley

Regards,

[ShakinJoe]

I love this thread

[Sboxin]

ShakinJoe -- Thanks!

I forgot to put up a photo of the 964 before we disassembled it -- on my back porch

We will be selling some 964 parts - like Power Steering pump, cruise control, full exhaust system, flywheel and clutch,
front pulley and damper - but I thought we would wait till its all done and the race car
driver is happy with the outcome -- "Got to BE!!"



We will be using a Patrick flywheel to adapt the 964 to our custom race built 915
transmission -- and we will use our current headers and clean up that plumbing mess
in this photo



Take care,
Regards,

[Sboxin]

Here a few photos of the 1992 964 Porsche engine with Webcams 20/21cams,
sprockets and new chains and guides...and chain covers installed...cams are timed
and ready for dizzy, etc...

Roland at Don Jackson Enterprises in Phoenix does an excellent and very clean job of assembling
this engine for us. They just finished a 993 into '85 Carrera conversion.











The car is now in the shop and ready for the conversion to start soon.
The current 3.2L - SC engine tins will be modified to fit the 964.

If you see anything questionable, please write and let me know?

Regards,

[kandhmfg]

Lookin' good Roy and Brian.

Was there no cooling tin between the cylinders on the 964 engine? I know it is a pain to install the 911 tin between the cylinders after you put the cam towers on without bending and re-bending where the tabs hold them on. BTDT. Maybe the 964 is easier in that regard.

Can't wait to see the car with new powerplant on the track. Hopefully its ready by INDE. Going to be a beast! I think its time for Rock Bottom again soon.

Erik

[Sboxin]

Thanks Erik,

The cooling tin is on the bottom side of the cylinders - no photo of that side.
We are looking forward to driving this on the track too -- hoping for INDE in Oct. but
may need to wait for Firebird late Oct. Rock Bottom sounds good to me...

Also, found cracked intake manifolds - #*&%#* plastic parts - another unexpected
expense...

Take care,

[Sboxin]

More photos of the 964 3.8L build --
Dizzy, plug wires (new), fan/alternator. cooling shroud...
...Will remove 3.2L from car and use tin to build engine tin for 964...
Tarett aluminum valve covers will also be added...and rubber fuel lines replaced.
We used the Patrick front pulley and flywheel conversion also.

So....why is the fan that ugly color??? Because original and Racecar






Again, I can't thank Roland and DJ at Don Jackson Enterprises enough for their
thorough and expert work on this project. And, thank them for their patience with
me hanging around their shop taking photos and asking questions.

Regards,

[Sboxin]

Moving right along --

Existing 3.2L removed from car for engine tin modification to 3.6L

New Intake manifold pieces installed with fuel rails and Mr. Injector reconditioned
fuel injectors. The rubber fuel lines to the rails are being replaced with new high
pressure rubber because this can be a future failure that can be easily prevented now.

The engine tin modifications include making a space for the lower plug wires to
pass through the tin -- and filling and bending to match the 3.6L -- not too hard
to do - maybe 2 hours work.

And, new Tarett billet aluminum valve covers to replace the magnesium original covers.









Next -- finish tin -- install intake and exhaust

We are discussing engine break in procedures and oil(non detergent non synthetic
-- maybe even Joe Gibbs special engine break in oil)-

What say You????

Regards,

[ShakinJoe]

Joe Gibbs break in oil for sure.

[Sboxin]

Thanks, we were leaning toward Joe Gibbs also.
Jacksons have used this in some hard to seat rings in 944 engines.

Another new photo - looking more complete - need to weld stiffeners on the rear
engine mount too - and an O2 bung into the headers

We (the shop and I) have decided to take out the existing oil breather catch can and
filter to hook up the breather as a closed loop as in factory set ups. The old system
made a mess of the engine compartment and need continual cleaning. We run the oil
level at 1/4 inch above the minimum mark on the dip stick at hot temps.

A 930 cover is ordered to close the big hole in the cooling shroud where the forced
air exhaust is located on the stock 964 cover. There will also be a small hose to blow air into the dizzy to cool the belt drive.

The wiring harness and throttle cable are yet to be installed too...



Regards,

[Sboxin]

And...on to the wiring conversion...964 DME sitting in the back passenger side
Original 964 Engine harness along with the Patrick 964/911 conversion wiring.
Also, new coils and ignition -- fuel filter is moving up front along with new fuel lines in the tunnel.






Looks like the floor needs a little work too...my old back doesn't do floors too well


Regards,

[Sboxin]

...making some progress -
CV joints done,
exhaust mounted - from the 3.2L to the 964 (pic shows custom Laguna Seca muffler),
engine tin finished,
motor mount should be done today,
trans work underway (need Turbo syncro/dog teeth part from CA),

We decided to change the 0.96 5th gear to a 0.82 stock gear for more top speed
on long-straight race courses - our previous top speed was 125mph. We have a
custom built 915 trans - and one of the changes was to use Turbo syncro/dog teeth
because it holds together when the dog teeth wear out and things start coming apart
inside that grenade the box.

The 911SC rear engine mount needed a stiffening plate added for the 964 - will post pic next time.

Regards,

[Sboxin]

...just a couple of photos of new 5th gear, custom work on dizzy air tube, and relocated fuel filter...

28/23 (0.82) stock ratio 5th gear



Air tube to cool belt -- no heater=race car






Relocated fuel filter (I think this is a VW part
because of the easy fittings in and out)




The welder decided he is going to produce heavy duty rear engine mounts --
so, I will have photos soon of the custom fabricated piece.

Regards,

[Sboxin]

...And, in she goes ....start up planned for Tuesday

Note the custom made rear engine mount...now available for other 3.6 to SC conversions...from the welder-around-the-corner...








Note: NOT Mobile 1 anymore --- now Amsoil 15-50 Race Oil (after break in of course)

Regards,

[Sboxin]

The rebuilt 1992 964 (now 3.8L) is in the car --
Engine runs fine, sounds good, and is strong!

We ran the car on the track for break in using Joe Gibbs oil
on Saturday. The procedure was shift at 3K for several laps
then to 4K and 5K with acceleration - deceleration cycles.

On Sunday we changed the oil to Valvoline race oil 20-50. The
oil came out dark gray but no particles on the magnetic drain plugs.
Brian ran the engine to 6K for shifting and did a race practice,
race qualifying and the a 30 minute sprint race, still shifting at 6K.
(what patience he has -- being a back marker...)
NOTE: Oil temp was 210 for break in and during the race on Sunday - air temp 88

We had what we think is a DME issue on Sunday. We will get a OBD
tester on the DME tomorrow and see what shows up. We are running
the jumper DME set to "No O2 sensor ROW". The first issue was
random hesitation - then I removed the power to the DME and later
had low power and reduced throttle response.

Does the DME need constant power to keep from resting the memory??
I will be searching the forum for this answer...
Edit: Power keeps error codes and idle settings - was told...

There is a cold idle issue which we expected, but Brian adapted well
and it was not a problem either in the pits or on the track.


Ain't she a PRETTY!! The monster looking like like stock...

And, a video 13 seconds on track with muffler--
VID 20121028 00001 - YouTube

Regards,

[Trophy]

Looking Good.

the '95 993's that use the 55pin Bosch DME have constant 12v power to them, i would suspect the 964 55pin to be the same

[Sboxin]

We had the Don Jackson crew put the Porsche tester on the car -- no error codes...

Then Roland did an adaption and the engine smoothed out and ran fine - very quick
accel/decel under no load conditions. This is because of the Patrick flywheel and
no heavy front damper.

Our next step is a Dyno Tune...

Regards,

[Sboxin]

The Dyno Tune by Steve Wong went very well at Sergio Nardi's Game-Face facility in La Harbra, CA..

The results are 270 RWHP and 250+ RWT

Video link of one of 28 dyno runs

Porsche Dyno Tune 11-21-2012 by Steve Wong at Game-Face Sergio Nardi video by Arizona-ed | Photobucket

The DynoJet set up



Steve working on the DME




The DynoJet graphs of several runs -- Steve worked hard at smoothing the A/F ratio
-- this process took about 5 hours
---the blip on the graph at about 5700 is the 964 intake resonator opening
--- the rev limiter is set at 7200 - and Sergio ran it there every run - engine is strong...
(Thanks to The Don Jackson Enterprises shop in Phoenix and Roland the engine builder)



Next step is back to the track for more racing and Brian learning to use more power.

Thanks for reading our engine rebuild story - as everyone says -- it takes a lot of patience.

Regards,

[J Richard]

Roy, looking forward to seeing it full throttle at chuckwalla!
What was the ultimate difference from the first pull to the last? Wondering what the improvement was. Yea that blip looks familiar, I've always wondered if the opening could be adjusted or what the curve would look like if the flap was just held open.

Nice!