First time engine removal questions

keynsham1 · 05-27-2013, 09:18 AM

Next weekend I am going to drop the engine from my 911SC due to the usual head stud problem. I have four broken, and three completely missing which I suspect was from the previous owner!

I have a few questions which I am hoping somebody can help me with?

Firstly, I assume there is a vacuum pipe for the brake servo (booster). Where is this located on the engine?

Is there a wiring loom connection at the back of the engine? I have disconnected all the wiring on the left side but I have read that there is more behind the engine?

Is the engine earth strap the one that is actually attached to the front end of the gearbox just in front of the mounting cross beam?

If I raise the car and rest it on its wheels to take the engine out, I assume when the engine is released onto my home made supporting pallet, that the car will move upwards on the suspension? Does anyone have any experience of this happening?

Thanks in advance!

Flat6pac · 05-27-2013, 09:56 AM

I ll handle the questions..
The booster is vacuumed from above the #3 runner, a large black vacuum hose with a pair of clamps right there.
If the car is a Lambda car, there is a plug in of a six or 12 pin connector.
The oxygen sensor is a connector below #3 spark plug hole coming through the sheet metal.
just in front of the mounting cross beam? and attaches to the body bolt there to the right side of center. Be sure you remove the black wire on the starter. Its the battery line to the starter. Be sure to undo the ground of the battery.
Take a 2x6 about 2 to 3 feet long under the floorpan just in front of the transmission and lift the whole car to clear the engine and you dont have to worry about wheel spring.
Bruce

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

Here is a check list that I made to use with my SC. Hope this helps!

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

The "other" wiring harness is located behind the heater fan motor on the left side of the engine compartment, on the little shelf just to the right of the top of the left shock absorber fittings. It should be a 6 pin plug. Just pull it straight up to unplug. The wire will then lower with the engine. Also, be careful when you unplug the O2 sensor wire. The plugs become quite brittle and will crumble if not handled carefully. Also, there is a sensor mounted on the right side of the transmission near the axles that must be removed. This is the speedometer sensor. Loosen one 6mm bolt and push the retaining wire out of the way. Lift the sensor out and hang out of the way so that it won't be damaged. The reverse switch wires can come out with the engine/transaxle. When you disconnect the axles, cover the CV joints with a plastic bag to keep dirt out. You can use a piece of wire or string to tie the axles up and out of the way. Make certain that you have disconnected the shift coupler or you will risk bending the shifter input shaft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keynsham1

Next weekend I am going to drop the engine from my 911SC due to the usual head stud problem. I have four broken, and three completely missing which I suspect was from the previous owner!

I have a few questions which I am hoping somebody can help me with?

Firstly, I assume there is a vacuum pipe for the brake servo (booster). Where is this located on the engine?

Is there a wiring loom connection at the back of the engine? I have disconnected all the wiring on the left side but I have read that there is more behind the engine?

Is the engine earth strap the one that is actually attached to the front end of the gearbox just in front of the mounting cross beam?

If I raise the car and rest it on its wheels to take the engine out, I assume when the engine is released onto my home made supporting pallet, that the car will move upwards on the suspension? Does anyone have any experience of this happening?

Thanks in advance!

boyt911sc · boyt911sc's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by keynsham1

Next weekend I am going to drop the engine from my 911SC due to the usual head stud problem. I have four broken, and three completely missing which I suspect was from the previous owner!

I have a few questions which I am hoping somebody can help me with?

Firstly, I assume there is a vacuum pipe for the brake servo (booster). Where is this located on the engine?

Is there a wiring loom connection at the back of the engine? I have disconnected all the wiring on the left side but I have read that there is more behind the engine?

Is the engine earth strap the one that is actually attached to the front end of the gearbox just in front of the mounting cross beam?

If I raise the car and rest it on its wheels to take the engine out, I assume when the engine is released onto my home made supporting pallet, that the car will move upwards on the suspension? Does anyone have any experience of this happening?

Thanks in advance!

Keynsham1,

If your SC is a RoW car (no lambda), there would be no wiring connector at the back of the engine. However, if your car is a non-Euro or RoW car:

'78-'79...........................no extra connector at the back side.
'80................................there is a 6-pin connector for the ECU.
'81-'83...........................there is a 12-pin connector for the ECU.

After the removal of the engine, the rear end of the car will go up several inches due to the removal of the load (engine).

Tony

keynsham1 · 06-02-2013, 10:59 AM

Today I did it! The engine and gearbox of my 1978 911SC are sitting on a trolley in my garage. Not the easiest task in the world I must admit. I had to grind off some bolts on the driveshafts to get them off the gearbox and despite reading all the books and manuals, I am sure not all connections are where you might expect. Still there it is. Now for the hard work to begin!

Flat6pac · 06-02-2013, 11:13 AM

I would put a couple bolts through the CV joint to keep it from falling apart...Falls apart, then you have a challange.
Bruce

keynsham1 · 06-02-2013, 12:11 PM

The CV joints are covered in plastic bags now. The photo was taken just as I removed the engine!

zelrik911 · zelrik911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by keynsham1

Today I did it! The engine and gearbox of my 1978 911SC are sitting on a trolley in my garage. Not the easiest task in the world I must admit. I had to grind off some bolts on the driveshafts to get them off the gearbox and despite reading all the books and manuals, I am sure not all connections are where you might expect. Still there it is. Now for the hard work to begin!

Well done!!!
I will be watching to see how the head stud replacement goes, in preparation (tips & traps) for doing mine.

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

Good job, getting the engine down safely! If you don't already have it, buy a copy of Wayne's book on 911 engine rebuilding. Lots of good info and tips there. Worth every penny spent!

When you go to remove the Dilivar studs, use a propane or Mapp gas torch to heat the block just inside the spigot next to the base of the stud. You might need to apply the heat more than once, but when it is warm enough, you should be able to turn the old studs out using a plumbers pipe (adjustable) wrench. Using this method, I was able to get all of the lower studs out of my SC engine without too much trouble. Once they are out, resist the urge to run a tap into the threads. Doing so will cut them larger than they are now and will cause the new studs to be a loose fit. I replaced the lower studs on my engine with the Porsche steel units. The Supertec or ARP studs are unquestionably better but are also quite a bit more expensive. Which you choose to use is your choice, but don't blame anyone else if you go the less expensive route! As you disassemble the engine, put parts that go together into labled plastic baggies. Make is much easier when doing the reassembling work!

keynsham1 · 06-04-2013, 01:32 PM

Got to work this evening and removed the inlet and fuel injection system. Just undo twelve bolts...... If you have never done this then I can assure you that some of them are not easy to get at! There is also a lot of wiring connectors to label and a few other parts to remove to gain access. I am learning as I go with the help of three different manuals, which is the best way I think.

I am struggling to part the gearbox from the engine at the moment. The lower stud positioned below the starter motor, is corroded onto the hole and will not budge. Apart from that it is free so it is presently soaking in penetrating oil. I will get there eventually!

Flat6pac · 06-04-2013, 02:20 PM

You need to completely remove the clutch lever, the upper lever is an idler lever and should spin freely to allow the throw out bearing fingers to move off.
Some upper levers have a cross pin to hold it in place, some SC s dont. It needs to spin freely to work properly and they do freeze on the vertical shaft.

Bruce

keynsham1 · 06-06-2013, 01:22 PM

More strip down today but still can't get the gearbox off. It is lose except for the stud below the starter motor which seems to be corroded into the hole. I just can't budge it and don't have a plan at present to sort the problem!

Offending stud shown below.

earossi · 06-06-2013, 08:48 PM

You mentioned that you are soaking that corroded stud in "penetrating oil". Not sure what you are using, but not all penetrating oils are equal! For instance if you are using WD 40 or similar, you are probably wasting your time. Try Kroil or some have used PB Blaster. My experience has been with Kroil which works very well. Only problem is that you can only get Kroil via the internet.

keynsham1 · 06-06-2013, 10:11 PM

sadly, neither PB blaster or KR Oil are available in the UK as far as I can tell, and ordering them from the States is a bit time consuming (4-6 weeks!), so they are not really an option.

SCadaddle · 06-06-2013, 10:49 PM

Find a pair of thin nuts and double nut that stud, then put a wrench on it and see if it will budge; perhaps just enough to break the corrosion at the gearbox or maybe all the way out of the engine case.

zelrik911 · zelrik911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by keynsham1

sadly, neither PB blaster or KR Oil are available in the UK as far as I can tell, and ordering them from the States is a bit time consuming (4-6 weeks!), so they are not really an option.

In Australia we are like you in UK - no Kroil or PB blaster - that I have ever seen for sale.
(Although I have used PB blaster in the tropics, out of OZ, & I found it was very good compared to WD40 )

You could try making up a homebrew penetrant, plenty of recipes on the web - they all seem to have half acetone and half light oil like ATF mix. Here is an example:

In this bottle mix a 50/50 mix of 100% acetone and dextron/mercron automatic transmission fluid. The two fluids will separate like oil and vinegar so you have to shake the bottle well before spraying.

I would try some local heat (heat gun?) to warm it up fist then spray on the cocktail and wait (Obviously remove the heat source first as you dont want a Molitov cocktail!!

)
Good luck Peter

keynsham1 · 06-07-2013, 05:14 AM

I have tried the double nut approach but it didn't work. I think my only real option is to file some flats on the stud and use vice grips to try and turn it. There is no way I am going to break the corrosion layer other than twisting as there is no way to pull the gearbox off with enough force to pull the stud out of the hole. I only need a small movement to break the corrosion layer and it will come apart. I will need to replace the stud afterwards of course.

keynsham1 · 06-08-2013, 08:45 AM

Vice grips and stud extractor sockets have both failed to free off my gearbox stud. I have tried making some penetrating oil with acetone and ATF fluid. It looks good but whether it will work or not is anyone's guess. I am completely at a standstill now as until I can get the gearbox off, I cannot do any more work. Really beginning to be a problem. I haven't been beaten before by anything like this.

I wonder what a professional garage or mechanic would do? I am sure they wouldn't take weeks to get the gearbox off as the cost would get silly to the customer. I don't expect they would admit defeat either.

Any professionals out there with a good idea??

earossi · 06-08-2013, 10:01 AM

As a last resort you can drill out the stud to the depth that gets you down to engine. Start with a small diameter bit and do your best to center it. Using progressive bits open the hole as much as possible. And then use a small rotary file to machine away material. This process will eventually waste away enough of the stud to break it lose.